Material choice for TIG cart

admin

I am planning on building a cart for my TIG gear but have no real idea just how to choose material size.  I have calculated the equipment to weigh in at around 300lbs.  This includes the welder, cooler, 330cf argon cylinder and cables.  This will be my first real project so I am not doing anything fancy, just a lower shelf and 2 upper shelves welded to risers.  I am essentially copying the design from Jody at weldingtipsandtricks.  He used 11/2" square tubing which he had lying around.  To me this seems like overkill (not that I mind overkill, but do I really need this much structural strength?).  Since I have no material lying around, I will be purchasing all the material.  I was looking at 1" or 11/4" square tubing with either .083" or .120" wall.  Differences in pricing are not that great and I am not considering that in my decision.  I am also unsure about whether to use sheet or expanded metal for the shelves.  I do have expanded metal lying around so I may just use that unless sheet steel is a better choice for some reason.  The top shelf will be sheet so I can use it to lay tools and stuff on top.  I just want to know that when I build this thing it will last, and be up to the task of holding all the gear....Unless of course I screw up the welds, in which case I will need to post the final result in the welding fail thread lol.Dynasty 280DXCoolmate 3Lincoln AC 225 TombstoneVictor Oxy/acetylene
Reply:I would use 1 1/4 with a .120 wall. That will be more than enough. On the shelves, DEFINITELY use expanded metal. It holds stuff just as well as sheet does, however the best part about expanded metal is dirt, grinding dust, or whatever stuff is around in your shop will not accumulate on the shelves and make a mess. All that will just fall through and onto the floor, awaiting you to sweep it up. Now get to work so we can see some pics!!!
Reply:I also agree with the previous poster about going with the bigger and thicker. Bigger will provide a more rigid structure and thicker will let you deal easier with poor fitups or lack of welding skils (I know I am one of those, that's why I always go a bit thicker than needed!)
Reply:Hey Doc, would love to see some pics as you go. Good luck!Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Originally Posted by HeartdocI am planning on building a cart for my TIG gear but have no real idea just how to choose material size.  I have calculated the equipment to weigh in at around 300lbs.  This includes the welder, cooler, 330cf argon cylinder and cables.  This will be my first real project so I am not doing anything fancy, just a lower shelf and 2 upper shelves welded to risers.  I am essentially copying the design from Jody at weldingtipsandtricks.  He used 11/2" square tubing which he had lying around.  To me this seems like overkill (not that I mind overkill, but do I really need this much structural strength?).  Since I have no material lying around, I will be purchasing all the material.  I was looking at 1" or 11/4" square tubing with either .083" or .120" wall.  Differences in pricing are not that great and I am not considering that in my decision.  I am also unsure about whether to use sheet or expanded metal for the shelves.  I do have expanded metal lying around so I may just use that unless sheet steel is a better choice for some reason.  The top shelf will be sheet so I can use it to lay tools and stuff on top.  I just want to know that when I build this thing it will last, and be up to the task of holding all the gear....Unless of course I screw up the welds, in which case I will need to post the final result in the welding fail thread lol.
Reply:I only have about 4 hours TIG experience and would choose the 1/8th as opposed to thinner stuff.  When I was building my last project I blew through some thin stuff out of position and left handed.  Happened before I realized. 1/8th is probably going to be more forgiving if your new like me.Syncrowave 210HH140Victor O/A
Reply:Will the cart be used on concrete floor or pulled around on dirt or gravel ? If you have a smooth surface like concrete thinner material will work. If dragging it on dirt go heavy and large wheels. Here's the crt posting, mine is # 34 http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...-Em-Up!!/page2I would suggest making it wide enough for two cylinders and multiple machines. With additional shelves you will always find something to set on it. As for material, the design will dictate on steel type. Square type is always nice to work with.
Reply:I did mine with old bed frame.Did great for my use.Don't have a 330cf cylinder though. only a small 55 but plan to change it.
Reply:OK guys.  Thanks for the input.  Looks like 11/4" w/.120" wall will be my choice.  Will have to get plenty of extra to practice with first.   I will try to post pics as I go.  Wish me luck!!Dynasty 280DXCoolmate 3Lincoln AC 225 TombstoneVictor Oxy/acetylene
Reply:I may also try to recruit docwelder and drf255 to aid me as I goDynasty 280DXCoolmate 3Lincoln AC 225 TombstoneVictor Oxy/acetylene
Reply:I used 1" x .120 square tube and angle iron and flat rolled expanded metal. Before I swapped out my heavy ac/dc stick machine with an invertig 221, that cart safely rolled around weighing 600lbs total.I'd never cantilever shelves using 1" tube, so it's all box framed on squares....It still totes 3 machines and about 100lbs of cords and cables and rods, plus two 125 CF bottles.Last edited by wornoutoldwelder; 02-28-2015 at 09:02 PM.
Reply:Attachment 1022031Attachment 1022041LOL, these things are never DONE ")Last edited by wornoutoldwelder; 02-28-2015 at 09:06 PM.
Reply:1/16th square aluminum or steel tube would easily hold 300 lbs of weight. we make 1.4x2x2' boxes/cubes out of .040" wall aluminum tubes and they hold 300 lbs easily too., people tend to over engineer stuff IMHO.Put several  wine glasses on a flat surface and a piece of plywood on top and one can stand on top and the glasses will support the weight. it's not the compressive/weight you need to be worried about it is side loading torque forces. IMHO. a few gussets or 45 trianlges will let you make a cart that is half the weight and easier to move around, while still being strong.Last edited by AluminumWelder; 03-01-2015 at 11:23 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by AluminumWelderpeople tend to over engineer stuff IMHO.
Reply:basically it's" impossible" to under-engineer it!You are not going to find steel tubing less than 1/16th wall very readily and even if you found some .040 wall thickness tube that would be more than enough. even if you used .040 wall thick square aluminum tubing it would be strong enough with some straegiecally placed 45 degree braces. We buy tons of this al tubing and make light weight stuff for trade shows, etc. I constantly have to educated clients that metal is strong enough. just made a booth for dj to haul around his speakers and mixers, notebooks and lights all in one trip to weddings and it weighs 75 lbs, loaded with gear probably 300 lbs. yes there are other commercial ones that are 3x the weight, but why strain yourself with overengineered heavy stuff when not necessary?
Reply:I understand completely.  Unfortunately aluminum is a no go for me.  The way I weld, it would fall apart or I would be blowing holes in it.  Eventually I hope to have it down, just not at the moment.Dynasty 280DXCoolmate 3Lincoln AC 225 TombstoneVictor Oxy/acetylene
Reply:Aluminum would be pricy.  We could do it though Mike.  I'd go with the thinner wall steel if you can get it.  I have a bunch of extra stock here.  I bought some for a stand I never and won't ever build.  I also have expanded metal. I pretty much overbuy everything.  If you want to make it a pedestal type cart, where there's one vertical shaft of 4" square with racks coming off it, I may have it all here.  If it's easier for you, we can do it right here.  You bring the beer.  We'll mig it.  A $hitload faster.  I can also bring the PM45 and my Rage3 saw to you.  Your call.  Just let me know.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:I use 1 1/2 Inch square tubing for nearly everything. I use it for log racks, desks, tv stands, etc. For a cart, I would suggest using it too because, its better for it to be too thick then not thick enough.Millermatic 200Miller Spectrum 2050
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255If it's easier for you, we can do it right here.  You bring the beer.  We'll mig it.  A $hitload faster.  I can also bring the PM45 and my Rage3 saw to you.  Your call.  Just let me know.
Reply:aluminum is about $3 a pound whole sale, steel about $1 a poundhowever with all the extra work of cleaning, prime and painting steel it works out to be only about 1/3rd more expensive in my opinion. as a shop we spend much more on labor then anything else, so if you buy $10,000 worth of steel you might be paying $10,000 in labor to prepare itit's true a lot of time aluminum is primed and painted too, but a lot of times it doesn't need to be which makes for great labor savings.
Reply:Damn, I've built so many, and used so many different types of material, there's a hundred ways you could do it.I used some 1 1/2" X 2" rectangular 14 ga tubing to build my cart for the Dynasty. Went heavier for the Maxtron, but the machine and feeder were a lot heavier.I know I've posted these before, but hopefully it'll give you some ideas. Wornoutoldwelder has a nice setup, multi use and compact. I like the central plug in setup Whatever the case, I think steel would be the easiest to work with. Granted, aluminum is lighter, but it also can be a real PITA to deal with. Angle or tubing will likely provide the easiest platform to build on.Good luck with it. Let me know if you need anything I may be able to help with. Attached ImagesExpert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:1 x 1 x .100" wall would suffice, but use whatever you like for aesthetics.Basically use up whatever you have lying around and make it cool and to suit your needsLast edited by Canoe2fish; 03-02-2015 at 07:14 PM.Thermal Arc Fabricator 2101970 Lincoln RedfaceMiller 150 STLStill need a Syncrowave and a plasma and a milling machine and a lathe and a bigger shop and a....
Reply:7A749,You ain't nuthin but a big showoff.Ain't no way I'ma going stand next to you in the urinal and tolerate you grunting and straining with both hands to do what I can do with just two fingers....Shucks, see what you made me do?...I just peed on my sneakers.
Reply:I built my cart using some scrap metal that was in the shop. My cart was built using 2 inch tubing for the base and 1.25 inch tubing and 1x2 inch tubing for the other parts of the frame. I had some scrap 10 gauge sheet metal to support bottle and used 14 gauge and 18 gauge sheet metal for other parts of the cart. Material size does not matter as much as making the cart work for the intended application. For my application, I wanted a built in water pump for my torch so a water pump, cooler and tank were placed under the welder. This was a fun project, good luck on your cart. Attached Images
Reply:mike; all the above carts would work. i like the one that incorporates an electric outlet. steel would be the way to go price wise and the 2" tubing at first looks like overkill but would come in handy to handle a larger capacity argon tank.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny flaI would use whatever I have around and at the moment it happens to be 1.25" square tube with a 1/8" wall.12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:Originally Posted by docwelder i like the one that incorporates an electric outlet.
Reply:Originally Posted by wornoutoldwelder7A749,You ain't nuthin but a big showoff.Ain't no way I'ma going stand next to you in the urinal and tolerate you grunting and straining with both hands to do what I can do with just two fingers....Shucks, see what you made me do?...I just peed on my sneakers.
Reply:7A749,Go ahead and laff at me if you want, but I've discovered I've become MUCH stronger now that I'm a white haired old man than I was when I was 17.When I was 17 and woke up with a pizz hard, it took both hands to bend it down at the toilet, but now I'm old I can do it with just two fingers...well at least one or I will pizz on the floor. So I must be stronger, huh?At least today I ain't gotta worry about my feet flying out from under me when I bend that sucker down at the toilet....I gotta stand closer and dribble lots, but that gives me time to remember how to find my way out of the bathroom.I'll confess there was a day when I could hold it with 4 fingers and my thumb while I peeded, but if I attempt it now a days, I pee on three of them.....So don't shake my hand when I am in the company of young studs I respect Last edited by wornoutoldwelder; 03-04-2015 at 03:17 PM.
Reply:You're killing me bro. I respect your wisdom and experience on such matters Expert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749You're killing me bro. I respect your wisdom and experience on such matters
Reply:I liked the story about the cars. And the girls I knew right away you were a cool dude Expert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749I liked the story about the cars. And the girls I knew right away you were a cool dude
Reply:I like that Expert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948