shopping for a machine

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Hello and decided to duck in here for some advice. I'm sure there are "many" opinions here on "what type of machine" should i buy.  So here's one more....I'm a homeowner with 4 acres and tend to break metal things, now and again and tired of asking the neighbor for a hand.  What I want is a mig. What I don't want is anything to do with a gas tank.  I have access to 220 and my shop is alread wired for this. I also have a 5500 watt gen that is capable, so I'm good there.  So I'd rather be safe, and move up to the 220 volt class...or it can be switchable from 120/220...it don't matter.  I've got some junky metal to weld, like a cheesy rim that broke outta a lawn airator. My hitch on lawnmower is becoming oblong due to vibration from pulling that airator. Giving you examples, of what I might need for a welder. I don't due cars, body work or anything special. I've been eyeballing the chicago products at HF being 180 amp 220 volt machines.Please, any advice would be nice. As I get older, I want things to last, but, I might weld something once every 2 months...so I won't be keeping anything over $300 just collecting dust.  Thx for the help....DM
Reply:Several of the HF machines are nothing more than 220v versions of most 120v machines. All the disadvantages of both and none of the advantages.The HF machines are notorious for poor quality control. This makes most units erratic as far as wire feed. Some get lucky and get decent machines, but they are usually the minority. Erratic feeding will play havoc with newer welders. You'll have a very tough time trying to determine if your problems are due to lack of skill, or are machine based. Unfortunately the people who often need a reliable machine to learn with are those who simply won't spend the money on a quality machine.A decent name brand 220v mig will set you back at lest $600-1000 new. Used you may get lucky and find used closer to $300, but don't bet on it. I'd say $600 is probably your bottom price even used. Most hold their value pretty well. If on a budget, look at Hobart. They make very nice machines for the money new. Used, it's hard to say. Just be careful not to get an old 3 phase machine. They usually go dirt cheap because no one can use them outside of an industrial plant.One other option might simply be a nice used 220v stick machine. You can pick up 220v AC machines on CL usually for $50-150. Most are very rugged and even if they look like hell, they'll probably still be running when your great grand kids get them. AC/DC units usually start about $300 used, but I've seen a few cheaper if you keep your eyes open. You can't do material as thin with stick without a bit of practice, but you usually can do heavier material than you can with most 180-200 amp class migs with no issues..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Yep, that covers a bunch. My take on your needs leads me to second the thought of a nice used stick machine. AC/DC and about 180~220 amps output will do just fine. None of the intricate workings of the wire feeder, (no gas), and durable enough to last. Wire fed machines were originally developed to speed up production welding. How many of us are production weldors?City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:I agree, in that price range, a good stick welder and auto darkening helmet is about all it will extend to.Cheers,  Tony._________________________________Transmig 310 + Argoshield LightOxy acetyleneOxy propanePrehistoric stick welder_________________________________
Reply:I'm also a noob, all i want to say is to get a auto darkening helmet. I wasted money on a fixed shade one. Lincoln 140 HD
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWSeveral of the HF machines are nothing more than 220v versions of most 120v machines. All the disadvantages of both and none of the advantages.The HF machines are notorious for poor quality control. This makes most units erratic as far as wire feed. Some get lucky and get decent machines, but they are usually the minority. Erratic feeding will play havoc with newer welders. You'll have a very tough time trying to determine if your problems are due to lack of skill, or are machine based. Unfortunately the people who often need a reliable machine to learn with are those who simply won't spend the money on a quality machine.A decent name brand 220v mig will set you back at lest $600-1000 new. Used you may get lucky and find used closer to $300, but don't bet on it. I'd say $600 is probably your bottom price even used. Most hold their value pretty well. If on a budget, look at Hobart. They make very nice machines for the money new. Used, it's hard to say. Just be careful not to get an old 3 phase machine. They usually go dirt cheap because no one can use them outside of an industrial plant.One other option might simply be a nice used 220v stick machine. You can pick up 220v AC machines on CL usually for $50-150. Most are very rugged and even if they look like hell, they'll probably still be running when your great grand kids get them. AC/DC units usually start about $300 used, but I've seen a few cheaper if you keep your eyes open. You can't do material as thin with stick without a bit of practice, but you usually can do heavier material than you can with most 180-200 amp class migs with no issues.
Reply:With the others also in agreement, I'll do a little more search on the stick welder. I just remember my Dad using his yrs ago and seems so messy. I was thinking the mig would be cleaner.Again, advice on weather a 120 mig hobar would suffice?Advise on brand name of arc welder?Thx, DM
Reply:No gas MIG, will be a flux-core wire.  It has slag just like the stick welders except it's harder to clean off.What you originally wanted to do is use 220V, I would stick with that.  I have a Hobart Handler 175A MIG, but I use gas with it.  There is virtually no clean up after welding with gas, except for when I weld Stainless.  Then it's just soot.Depending on the rod used, the slag can be dang hard to clean off, or it will just curl up after welding.  It takes a bit of practice to learn to watch the puddle & get the electrode in the right position, but once you have that down, it's a piece of cake.  The MIG can be learned quite fast, but the quality of the welds will suffer in the beginning.  Again with practice, the quality will improve.If you like the idea of "pulling the trigger" type welding, get a MIG.  If you are willing to learn & have enough scrap to practice on, get a stick welder.  I have both & have to practice some prior to laying a bead on a project.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:120v migs are limited under real world conditions to 1/8" or less for the 140 amp machines. To even get that much, you need to have a dedicated 20 amp line. Go with smaller migs and you will only be able to do thinner materials.  Understand that most manufacturers don't use real world conditions when they set the maximum thickness they list in their literature, so they tend to overrate these small machines. Small machines are notorious for making "pretty" welds with no penetration into the base metal if used beyond their real world thicknesses.The average person usually finds they want to weld thicker materials once they get started and understand more about what kinds of stuff they can create. I'd suggest at least a 180 amp 220v machine. That will allow you do do up to 1/4" material if you do your part.You've said you don't want to run gas, only flux core. Flux core is in reality just a continuous feed stick machine. You have all the general advantages/disadvantages of stick. It's smoky, you have a lot of spatter, you need to chip of the slag coating before running a 2nd bead or painting, but you can weld outside in the wind and get a bit more penetration than you do if you choose to use gas. That extra penetration hurts you ate the bottom end however. You will have a tough time doing thin material less than say 1/16", maybe 18 ga, with FC unless you have a lot of skill. You'll have the same disadvantage if you go with a stick machine, except the minimum thickness you can easily work with is probably 1/16" to 14 ga instead.If by "arc welder" you mean a stick machine, there a large selection to choose from. Lincoln probably makes the most recognized ones, but Miller and Hobart are just as good. Century ( now owned by Lincoln), made a ton of rebranded machines as well as those sold under the Century brand. Most Sears Craftsmans, Montgomery Wards and other "no name" older machines are probably Century's. You can also find some good deal on larger industrial stick machines as well. The ubiquitous "tombstones" ( IdealArcs) by Lincoln are probably the best know of the bigger machines, but Miller DialArcs and the older industrial Hobart's as well as Esabs, L-Tec's, Airco's and so on can often be found rather inexpensively .Take a few minutes and add your location to your User CP at the top left, and someone here might point out a few CL deals you might like to look at and think about..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSW120v migs are limited under real world conditions to 1/8" or less for the 140 amp machines. To even get that much, you need to have a dedicated 20 amp line. Go with smaller migs and you will only be able to do thinner materials.  Understand that most manufacturers don't use real world conditions when they set the maximum thickness they list in their literature, so they tend to overrate these small machines. Small machines are notorious for making "pretty" welds with no penetration into the base metal if used beyond their real world thicknesses.The average person usually finds they want to weld thicker materials once they get started and understand more about what kinds of stuff they can create. I'd suggest at least a 180 amp 220v machine. That will allow you do do up to 1/4" material if you do your part.You've said you don't want to run gas, only flux core. Flux core is in reality just a continuous feed stick machine. You have all the general advantages/disadvantages of stick. It's smoky, you have a lot of spatter, you need to chip of the slag coating before running a 2nd bead or painting, but you can weld outside in the wind and get a bit more penetration than you do if you choose to use gas. That extra penetration hurts you ate the bottom end however. You will have a tough time doing thin material less than say 1/16", maybe 18 ga, with FC unless you have a lot of skill. You'll have the same disadvantage if you go with a stick machine, except the minimum thickness you can easily work with is probably 1/16" to 14 ga instead.If by "arc welder" you mean a stick machine, there a large selection to choose from. Lincoln probably makes the most recognized ones, but Miller and Hobart are just as good. Century ( now owned by Lincoln), made a ton of rebranded machines as well as those sold under the Century brand. Most Sears Craftsmans, Montgomery Wards and other "no name" older machines are probably Century's. You can also find some good deal on larger industrial stick machines as well. The ubiquitous "tombstones" ( IdealArcs) by Lincoln are probably the best know of the bigger machines, but Miller DialArcs and the older industrial Hobart's as well as Esabs, L-Tec's, Airco's and so on can often be found rather inexpensively .Take a few minutes and add your location to your User CP at the top left, and someone here might point out a few CL deals you might like to look at and think about.
Reply:Originally Posted by toycoma98I'm also a noob, all i want to say is to get a auto darkening helmet. I wasted money on a fixed shade one.
Reply:unsure if i'll get scolded wither links, but i think it'll be ok. what is your take on this welder?http://bloomington.craigslist.org/tls/2887326723.htmlor in a mig, something like thishttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Hobart-Handl...040#vi-contentorhttp://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...5531_200405531if the mig advertise is correct and "could" do aluminum, this is possibly a better option. (future alum. work)I'd like the option of welding thinner metal. i don't think the arc would give me that optionAnd looks like the lincoln could switch of to gas.I'm getting closer, I think to narrowing down.Last edited by drmax; 04-28-2012 at 04:56 AM.
Reply:It's a nice machine, but a bit higher than I usually see them going for. If you haven't used a CL agregator like Search tempest or crazed list, it will greatly help expand your search. I usually use "welder" and search the results manually.http://www.searchtempest.com/results...min&maxAsk=maxA few  interesting items I see listed...Indianapolis CL listings...Apr 27 - Airco Arc 250 Amp AC / DC HeliWelder V - Welder Machine - $550 ... nice AC/DC tig. Don't know if it comes with leads on not. If so and it runs, it's a decent deal and you can learn tig with it later. Probably a bit too much machine compared to what you might be looking for, but a possibility.Apr 26 - Used Arc Welder - By Craftsman - $100... Looks dirty but chances are it works fine. will do everything that $175 Lincoln will.Apr 25 - SEARS CRAFTSMAN 230 AMP AC-DC ARC WELDER - $500. Very clean AC/DC machine, but A bit high in price. For $400 it might be worth it... There's a nicer one for less down below. listed April 22...Apr 24 - Millermatic 200 mig Welder - $1  "Make offer". These were very nice older migs. If it runs,  and you can get it for less that $600 go for it. It sounds like he might take less with no problem. I'd need to see condition to make a better judgement on price. See if he can run it for you, if not offer $50. Chances are it's worth that in parts if nothing else to guys here. I'd go take a look at that machine if it was local. If you want a nice mig, this is it. Probably the best "deal" I saw of all the listings. You will have to make a few small changes to the machine to run FC wire, since they were originally designed to do gas. Daune B can walk you thru the changes and someone else here just did the FC mod to one with Duanes help. It's not at all hard to do.Apr 23 - Lincoln Stick Arc Welder 225Amp - $100  Same exact machine you listed, but for only $100. A bit dusty, but I'd buy it untested and bet it would work with no problems.Edit:Apr 20 - Welder Hobart 187 - $600 The same basic machine the HH190 you listed is less the spoolgun. Price is high ( when they went to the HH190 and discontinued the HH187 this is almost what they were selling for new) but it does look like it comes with a small 20 cf cylinder, a $70 value. I wouldn't buy it for this, but if you can talk him down to $450 maybe $500 tops it's probably worth it.Apr 19 - Lincoln "Tombstone" 225 AMP Stick Welder - $125 Same machine as above, but painted black for some reason...Apr 18 - Old miller welder - $75 An old Thunderbolt. another option on a budget...Bloomington CL listings...Apr 23 - Miller welder - $150 Probably an old AC thunderbolt. Price fair, need to see picts to guess more.Apr 22 - Miller Electric Arc Welder - $400 An AC/DC thunderbolt stick machine. $400 is a bit high. If he's still got it he might go less. $300 would be a nice deal on one.Mar 27 - Arc Welder, Lincoln 225 - $100 Real old listing, but another AC Lincoln like you posted. It never hurts to call about old listings. Many times no one called and you can pick up deal for way less than the asking price. At worst they forgot to pull the listing and you lost nothing.Muncie / anderson CL....Apr 1 - Lincoln stick welder - $150  Another AC Lincoln...Apr 20 - i have a maruqette 70-120 stick welder - $75    A rebadged Century IIRC. Not a bad deal but a bit dirty. Some of the others above for the same money ( $125 or less) were nicer.I'll stop there, but there's a lot more listed as you go down...EDIT: You edited while I was looking up the CL items. The migs you listed are decent units. As far as alum, those machines will top out at 1/8" alum and will probably go down to 1/16" on the thin end. Mig alum is a hot fast process and needs more heat than steel the same thickness. You also need to run a spoolgun ( included with the Hobart you posted) to have any chance at decent results, adding to the cost generally.Last edited by DSW; 04-28-2012 at 05:15 AM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Buy a stick or 220 mig Cant go wrong with a 180 Lincoln or Hobart / Miller from the box store only thing at Harbor Freight a 45 auto dark helmet and some rod holders , all other welding stuff is crap .The 250 toumbstone is one of the worlds best welders AC/DC welds anything ., and Gouges and with a HI Freq tig too !!!
Reply:Originally Posted by PavinsteelmanBuy a stick or 220 mig Cant go wrong with a 180 Lincoln or Hobart / Miller from the box store only thing at Harbor Freight a 45 auto dark helmet and some rod holders , all other welding stuff is crap .The 250 toumbstone is one of the worlds best welders AC/DC welds anything ., and Gouges and with a HI Freq tig too !!!
Reply:I see tractor supply has the hobarts and lowes the lincolns. Looks like the hobarts would be pretty good and satisfy my concerns of buying a quality machinine. Gotta watch for a summer sale at Lowes which they do frequently. Home depot does sales too and also have lincoln. TSC rarely has sale so I would imgagine I'd be giving them what they'd want. http://tsc.tractorsupply.com/search?...5NRPK2&cnt=300I need to see which one would be a better fit for any mission I may have. I'll never own a farm with that type of equiptment. Just doing the odd jobs.It's now down to a lincoln or hobart, 110 or 220 volt mig with gas and wire feeder options.
Reply:DSW, thx for going outta the way to search the listings. I called the guy with millermatic and awaiting response. Chillin and researching.
Reply:Originally Posted by toycoma98I'm also a noob, all i want to say is to get a auto darkening helmet. I wasted money on a fixed shade one.
Reply:TSC usually mails out a 20 or 25% off coupon a couple of times a year.   Late May maybe?For farm use, I would definitely recommend a 220 machine.  As for being able to weld aluminum with a MIG machine, you need a special spool gun and they can be very expensive ($200-$600? depending on the machine.)  You also need a separate tank of argon.As for the Lincoln 225 AC/DC stick machines, someone pointed out in another thread that Home Depot has them for $387 online, free shipping.   That more than $100 cheaper than Lowes or any place else I've seen.   Ken
Reply:Further research and already at the "closer to 1K range" anyway...I've narrowed down my decision to either the Hobart 210 MVP and Millermatic 211 MVP. Leaning towards the Miller.I like the 110/220 option and should never need anything else in a welder. Will wait to catch one on sale with the spool gun. DM
Reply:" Will wait to catch one on sale with the spool gun "The 211 is a nice machine the auto 110/220 is a good option on a portable.Last year Miller was doing a rebate on a few of their machines and there was $100 rebate on that so it was like $875.00 after the rebate.
Reply:Originally Posted by fredschrom" Will wait to catch one on sale with the spool gun "The 211 is a nice machine the auto 110/220 is a good option on a portable.Last year Miller was doing a rebate on a few of their machines and there was $100 rebate on that so it was like $875.00 after the rebate.
Reply:Here's a post on the 211 using Dualshield.   You'll like this     .http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=63270
Reply:Hello. Finally found a brand new in box H/F 180 model mig for $200.  I won't be welding much, as will start with the flux core.  When I step up, I will be able to afford a larger bottle, but can someone recommend...should I find an old o2 bottle and change the valve?  Or, just go to my local welding shop (which is near) and just buy a bottle off them?  I was thinking of a 125 size and just have it around for when I need it. Maybe that's too big?  Dunno. The shop isn't too far away to get refills. Also, what gas should I get?  Here's the machine...http://www.harborfreight.com/welding...mps-68886.html
Reply:Originally Posted by drmaxHello. Finally found a brand new in box H/F 180 model mig for $200.  I won't be welding much, as will start with the flux core.  When I step up, I will be able to afford a larger bottle, but can someone recommend...should I find an old o2 bottle and change the valve?  Or, just go to my local welding shop (which is near) and just buy a bottle off them?  I was thinking of a 125 size and just have it around for when I need it. Maybe that's too big?  Dunno. The shop isn't too far away to get refills. Also, what gas should I get?  Here's the machine...http://www.harborfreight.com/welding...mps-68886.htmlOriginally Posted by GambleSee if you can find anything like a brand name on Craigslist before you purchase. 125cf tank is a good size, just save yourself time and a headache and get one that is made for welding already and not where you have to change anything. I know my LWS (local welding store) will ONLY fill the tanks they sell you. So might as well check into that first before you buy a used one.Gas for mig is c25. (75% argon, 25% co2)Mig for stainless is a tri mix of both the above and helium. Not sure on percentages, never used it.
Reply:When I bought my welder, I ordered it from Northern Tool. I took advantage of the free freight and no sales tax.I gave up any advantage of buying from a LWS.  Harbor Freight Rod Containers are very good for the money.I offer three choices: Good, Fast, & Cheap. You may pick two.Hobart AC/DC StikMate LXHarbor Freight AD HoodHarbor Freight Industrial Chop SawDeVilbis 20 Gallon, 5 HP Compressor
Reply:around here there is no welding store other than Airgas . total monopoly .  they absorbed Holox andLinde  , and took over the Holox warehouse . put 3 or 4 mom'n pop welding shops out of business too.now , my choices are airgas or home depot / tractor supply  for consumables . Radnor generic can behit or miss as far as quality . not always sure who made it .  home depot sells lincoln rod and wire,which is usually good stuff, but they don't always have exactly  what i want . TS has Hobart  branded supplies... kinda mysterious , but generally overpriced w/ decent quality .
Reply:Originally Posted by tnmgcarbidearound here there is no welding store other than Airgas . total monopoly .  they absorbed Holox andLinde  , and took over the Holox warehouse . put 3 or 4 mom'n pop welding shops out of business too.now , my choices are airgas or home depot / tractor supply  for consumables . Radnor generic can behit or miss as far as quality . not always sure who made it .  home depot sells lincoln rod and wire,which is usually good stuff, but they don't always have exactly  what i want . TS has Hobart  branded supplies... kinda mysterious , but generally overpriced w/ decent quality .
Reply:Originally Posted by nadogailWhen I bought my welder, I ordered it from Northern Tool. I took advantage of the free freight and no sales tax.I gave up any advantage of buying from a LWS.  Harbor Freight Rod Containers are very good for the money.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWSeveral of the HF machines are nothing more than 220v versions of most 120v machines. All the disadvantages of both and none of the advantages.The HF machines are notorious for poor quality control. This makes most units erratic as far as wire feed. Some get lucky and get decent machines, but they are usually the minority. Erratic feeding will play havoc with newer welders. You'll have a very tough time trying to determine if your problems are due to lack of skill, or are machine based. Unfortunately the people who often need a reliable machine to learn with are those who simply won't spend the money on a quality machine.A decent name brand 220v mig will set you back at lest $600-1000 new. Used you may get lucky and find used closer to $300, but don't bet on it. I'd say $600 is probably your bottom price even used. Most hold their value pretty well. If on a budget, look at Hobart. They make very nice machines for the money new. Used, it's hard to say. Just be careful not to get an old 3 phase machine. They usually go dirt cheap because no one can use them outside of an industrial plant.One other option might simply be a nice used 220v stick machine. You can pick up 220v AC machines on CL usually for $50-150. Most are very rugged and even if they look like hell, they'll probably still be running when your great grand kids get them. AC/DC units usually start about $300 used, but I've seen a few cheaper if you keep your eyes open. You can't do material as thin with stick without a bit of practice, but you usually can do heavier material than you can with most 180-200 amp class migs with no issues.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbeadi would suggest get a good fixed shade gold lens. a/d is not at all necessary , esp for a noob...
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWSeveral of the HF machines are nothing more than 220v versions of most 120v machines. All the disadvantages of both and none of the advantages.The HF machines are notorious for poor quality control. This makes most units erratic as far as wire feed. Some get lucky and get decent machines, but they are usually the minority. Erratic feeding will play havoc with newer welders. You'll have a very tough time trying to determine if your problems are due to lack of skill, or are machine based. Unfortunately the people who often need a reliable machine to learn with are those who simply won't spend the money on a quality machine.A decent name brand 220v mig will set you back at lest $600-1000 new. Used you may get lucky and find used closer to $300, but don't bet on it. I'd say $600 is probably your bottom price even used. Most hold their value pretty well. If on a budget, look at Hobart. They make very nice machines for the money new. Used, it's hard to say. Just be careful not to get an old 3 phase machine. They usually go dirt cheap because no one can use them outside of an industrial plant.One other option might simply be a nice used 220v stick machine. You can pick up 220v AC machines on CL usually for $50-150. Most are very rugged and even if they look like hell, they'll probably still be running when your great grand kids get them. AC/DC units usually start about $300 used, but I've seen a few cheaper if you keep your eyes open. You can't do material as thin with stick without a bit of practice, but you usually can do heavier material than you can with most 180-200 amp class migs with no issues.
Reply:Hello. Can someone recommend what wire speed and amp settings to start out with, for 1/8" sq. tubing, with this HF 180 machine?  I will be using flux core. I did not buy any extra material to practice with. Thank you for your settings advice...DMLast edited by drmax; 01-07-2013 at 10:38 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by drmaxHello. Can someone recommend what wire speed and amp settings to start out with, for 1/8" sq. tubing?  I will be using flux core as the project does not need to be pretty, however I did not by any extra material.  Thank you for your settings advice...DM