is this REALLY how production welding is?? SMH

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Ok to make a long story short kid in my school was told by his job that he has 6 days to "get better" at welding. They want him to crank the volts up 29.5 and the wire speed be 657. They want NO WEAVING and no movement at all. So is this really what its like for production MIG or is his company just FUBAR?
Reply:Production.Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v  Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain
Reply:Originally Posted by steel_schmidtOk to make a long story short kid in my school was told by his job that he has 6 days to "get better" at welding. They want him to crank the volts up 29.5 and the wire speed be 657. They want NO WEAVING and no movement at all. So is this really what its like for production MIG or is his company just FUBAR?
Reply:Good point but i think in the long run it would kinda screw you. Especially if your working there for like 4 years then get a different job. Kinda hard to perfect your craft if your taking short cuts. Just my newb .02
Reply:Wow! The shop I started in (20 years ago) was and still is a production job shop, but there was still time for the foreman to teach the new guys and maintain quality control.  Sounds like your buddy is getting thrown to the wolves!  Thats to bad.
Reply:Originally Posted by steel_schmidtGood point but i think in the long run it would kinda screw you. Especially if your working there for like 4 years then get a different job. Kinda hard to perfect your craft if your taking short cuts. Just my newb .02
Reply:Thats what i thought. My instructor said hes gonna go talk to the forman and show them how its supposed to be done. The company is the biggest recruiter for students at our school and he said if this is how theyre gonna be theyre gonna drop the company
Reply:Originally Posted by steel_schmidtThats what i thought. My instructor said hes gonna go talk to the forman and show them how its supposed to be done. The company is the biggest recruiter for students at our school and he said if this is how theyre gonna be theyre gonna drop the company
Reply:It's a production line they gotta make the product profitable. Hopefully the money saved will become money earned for the employees. Likely it will line the owners mattress. If that's the case, a non production environment might be the job to look for.
Reply:Dave that's what he was saying he was pretty pissed on thursday so we'll see. Austin i guess i try to just have more pride in my work. Theres a production job opening up in my town (the only welding job in a 50 mile radius) but if this is how its gonna be ill take a job further away. Hell i drive an hour and a half everyday just to get to school now so i guess its not that serious
Reply:Originally Posted by steel_schmidtOk to make a long story short kid in my school was told by his job that he has 6 days to "get better" at welding. They want him to crank the volts up 29.5 and the wire speed be 657. They want NO WEAVING and no movement at all. So is this really what its like for production MIG or is his company just FUBAR?
Reply:Originally Posted by steel_schmidtOk to make a long story short kid in my school was told by his job that he has 6 days to "get better" at welding. They want him to crank the volts up 29.5 and the wire speed be 657. They want NO WEAVING and no movement at all. So is this really what its like for production MIG or is his company just FUBAR?
Reply:Yes you absolutely need to have pride in your work.  I apologize if I seem a bit brash but that's me. The Death of America profit over quality, stamp out a cheap disposable product.   The ways of old are few and far between. The increased competition from overseas manufacturers pushes domestic shops into a corner. I'm sure they want to do things the right way but it might not be financially feasible. Businesses evolve to meet consumers expectations or go out of business. Try to see it from the businesses point of view. I would rather have a procedure change than a pay cut or layoff.   I hear ya on the driving part, I do 130 miles one way because I love my Job. The best of luck to you finding a job you love too
Reply:Not brash at all i agree 100% with what your saying. I understand the business side but it seriously pisses me off when a company is willing to give up quality for quantity.  Id rather be jobless than work like that.  Idk i guess my brain is just wired differently
Reply:Originally Posted by steel_schmidtNot brash at all i agree 100% with what your saying. I understand the business side but it seriously pisses me off when a company is willing to give up quality for quantity.  Id rather be jobless than work like that.  Idk i guess my brain is just wired differently
Reply:Originally Posted by steel_schmidtGood point but i think in the long run it would kinda screw you. Especially if your working there for like 4 years then get a different job. Kinda hard to perfect your craft if your taking short cuts. Just my newb .02
Reply:Originally Posted by steel_schmidtNot brash at all i agree 100% with what your saying. I understand the business side but it seriously pisses me off when a company is willing to give up quality for quantity.  Id rather be jobless than work like that.  Idk i guess my brain is just wired differently
Reply:Originally Posted by tackitIf the company paid for a machine that would do it then I say they have the right to expect their people running the machine to do it.  Americans need to put their job skills before enjoying their weed and porn,  if possible,  tell him to stay after work and come in on Saturdays when he's off to practice.
Reply:When I was running work, as a foreman, or superintendent I would have loved to have a school teacher come to my job site and tell me I was doing it wrong! Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:My very first job out of school I was told the exact same thing.Foreman came over turned the volts and wire speed up as high as the machine would go and said that's the setting I needed to use!I worked there for 2 weeks and couldn't take it anymore. Its actually prob good to experience that for yourself, its ok for some ppl.... Myself all I could take was a couple weeks lol
Reply:See there you go i just learned something.  Like i said im a newb and havent been taught anything about hot spray transfer at high wire speeds. Now i know. I understand that the manufacturer doesnt give 2 licks about what i think about my welds but I DO. Everytime i weld something thats MY name im putting out there.  And thats something i give a damn about
Reply:Originally Posted by steel_schmidtNot brash at all i agree 100% with what your saying. I understand the business side but it seriously pisses me off when a company is willing to give up quality for quantity.  Id rather be jobless than work like that.  Idk i guess my brain is just wired differently
Reply:Originally Posted by steel_schmidtSee there you go i just learned something.  Like i said im a newb and havent been taught anything about hot spray transfer at high wire speeds.
Reply:Does his name go on the product not yours? I love it when a new guy comes in and shows me a way to do things slower on my dime. They don't last a week
Reply:Steel_Schmidt,You've been welding only 3 months, and then go around talking down a process, you never even used, because it's poor quality??The irony....Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024In production welding like this your "name" isn't on the part, the company name is. If they want you to make the weld a certain way, even if wrong.. Do it.That said, there is nothing wrong with spray transfer mig. If the guys using it there don't make nice looking welds it is their own fault. Either the machine settings are off or they don't know how to control it.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:Originally Posted by steel_schmidtEverytime i weld something thats MY name im putting out there.  And thats something i give a damn about
Reply:Originally Posted by steel_schmidtOk to make a long story short kid in my school was told by his job that he has 6 days to "get better" at welding. They want him to crank the volts up 29.5 and the wire speed be 657. They want NO WEAVING and no movement at all. So is this really what its like for production MIG or is his company just FUBAR?
Reply:Ive jad the opposite experianve to OP, one job i was welding 2" base plates to structural beams at 37 volts, 480 amps with 1.2 mm wire, pumping em out, foreman came out and told me to turn it down coz it was making the other welders look bad
Reply:So far as I know, that is not an appropriate setting for MIG welding in a spray process (spray transfer for that voltage should be closer to 375 for .045 wire). That, however, is a good setting for idiots in a production setting who care nothing about quality, and only about speed. As far as I am concerned it would be a good job to lose. I dont think I could manage to weld the same thing day in and out, with the only concern being how many widgets I made that day. AFAIK, those parameters are not suited to any spray process, wire feed speed too high, except production crap where their only concern is squirting out X amount of weld deposit per day and don't care about spatter, penetration, or anything else. If he wants to keep the job, then have him set the welder up at those settings and try and move fast enough to not burn through. He will get very little welding experience doing that though. I run a small welding contracting company and I build different things all the time. I do build a lot of iron doors, both modern and wrought iron, stairs, windows, signs, furniture, and custom fence (no standard pool fence crap, I wont even bid it). I have employees who are interested and engaged because the work is interesting and engaging. Some days its in the shop, some in the field installing.  Find out what part of welding interests him, and find an employer that does that type of work and see if you can interest them in an apprentice.
Reply:Originally Posted by walkerSo far as I know, that is not an appropriate setting for MIG welding in a spray process (spray transfer for that voltage should be closer to 375 for .045 wire). That, however, is a good setting for idiots in a production setting who care nothing about quality, and only about speed. As far as I am concerned it would be a good job to lose. I dont think I could manage to weld the same thing day in and out, with the only concern being how many widgets I made that day. AFAIK, those parameters are not suited to any spray process, wire feed speed too high, except production crap where their only concern is squirting out X amount of weld deposit per day and don't care about spatter, penetration, or anything else. If he wants to keep the job, then have him set the welder up at those settings and try and move fast enough to not burn through. He will get very little welding experience doing that though. I run a small welding contracting company and I build different things all the time. I do build a lot of iron doors, both modern and wrought iron, stairs, windows, signs, furniture, and custom fence (no standard pool fence crap, I wont even bid it). I have employees who are interested and engaged because the work is interesting and engaging. Some days its in the shop, some in the field installing.  Find out what part of welding interests him, and find an employer that does that type of work and see if you can interest them in an apprentice.
Reply:Well thanks guys for informing me about spray transfer now i know
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPOh you'll get over that. When you get run off a few times.Remember this very important rule in life. It's called the GOLDEN RULE.He with the Gold makes the rules!
Reply:Spray mig makes good fast welds.But what every job comes down to is, that they are paying you to do what you are told.Employers are not interested in arguing, not even a little.
Reply:And i understand that 100% honestly.  I just didnt know what spray transfer was so i guess my misinformation lead to me seeming ignorant.
Reply:Originally Posted by SquirmyPugIn production welding like this your "name" isn't on the part, the company name is. If they want you to make the weld a certain way, even if wrong.. Do it.That said, there is nothing wrong with spray transfer mig. If the guys using it there don't make nice looking welds it is their own fault. Either the machine settings are off or they don't know how to control it.
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopSteel_Schmidt,You've been welding only 3 months, and then go around talking down a process, you never even used, because it's poor quality??The irony....
Reply:Originally Posted by steel_schmidtDidnt realize taking pride in what i do would get me run off. But thanks for the tip ill keep that in mind for a job interview
Reply:And i get that. Time is money. Especially when it comes to a production type job. I was a machinist before i joined the army so i know all about that. The more money you make for the company the more of an asset you become
Reply:I really doubt its spray transfer since it would take a higher argon mix. Might be co2 with a ton of spatter. Either way its what they want, right wrong or otherwise.
Reply:Thats what makes the world go round and how we get paid
Reply:Taking pride in your work wont get you run off, but thinking you know more than the boss of the company and how he makes his product sure as hell willVantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:back in my shop days, i was taught to try and not weave anything that was flat position. really teaches you machine settings and control if you can put down a weld with even toes, no undercut, and have it be pretty flat.whether short circuit mig, tig, dual shield, spray-arc, or 7018. best looking welds you will ever see are done by some sort of mechanical apparatus, whether bugs in a tank or on decking, or orbitals on process tube, i dont think they weave.best looking weld is the one that you dont notice imobosses stuff:trailblazer 325maxstar 200my stuff:sa 200fronius transpocket 180100 amp Lincoln w/f97 f350 DITKevin
Reply:If this place recruits a lot of students from the school it's highly possible the welding teacher may have something to do with that. If the teacher has a good relationship with the company and is an experienced welder himself, I don't see anything wrong with him asking the foreman or higher up politely, "What's up?"  We also don't know what wire, what machine, what application or any other details. If this company is using the school to get slave like labor, then they should be dropped. Usually places set up for work experience and/or working with schools are pretty decent places willing to take on apprentices.
Reply:Thank you. That was the entire point the teacher was trying to make to us. Like i said earlier thus is the biggest company our school goes through and there are other companies will to recruit from our school from my understanding. But at the end of the day a welding job is a welding job
Reply:Every wire has recommended parameters from the manufacturer. If you're within those parameters there shouldn't be a big problem but a lot of times it takes some experience(more than 6 days) for beginners to learn how to run super hot and super fast. If this company is expecting the newbie's to have the same production as their experienced welders, then they are delusional.
Reply:Thats how I was taught coming into my company went in for the visual test upon being hired I weaved because thats how I've been MIG welding since I knew how. The boss told me "We don't do that around here we just simply drag it no weaving" I said "Alright" Haven't weaved once since I've been with the company.
Reply:Guess it just goes to show the real world isnt like school. Lesson learned. As long as they pay me good enough ill get weeds out of the cracks in the concrete with a flat tip screw driver.  And yes ive had to do that before
Reply:Originally Posted by SquirmyPugWhile I agree that the settings may not be right, sometimes a weld that is just "good enough" really is. As for not wanting to weld the same thing all the time.. Well someone HAS to. Also, its not always idiots in production settings, they can know how things should be done but to keep a job have to do things differently. For some people, in some areas there may not be another job available. So should they just quit because things aren't done how they want? How are they going to pay bills?
Reply:Yep, that's production haha. I'm young, so I've only had 2 jobs, but both of them have been production. Unfortunately that's all I can get with my level of experience where I'm at. I do TIG though. Although we've had MIG guys at both shops, and I've had to do it from time to time. They want it done their way, so you have to learn their way. Fast. Because production has to stay up."If you ain't making mistakes, it means you aren't learning anything."