mig beads before and after anti spatter gel....

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BeforeAfterI was about to give up mig welding because I could never get a decent looking bead .  The settings are the same, I just added the gel to the nossle.  I feel a lot better now and can actually practice properly.Hobart 210 mvp, setting 5, wire speed 35, c25 gas at 15 cfh
Reply:I don't think the anti-spatter gel is what is helping you. You don't have enough gas flow. You should be at a minimum of 20CFH. There are only a few things that cause porosity in MIG welds: insufficient gas coverage, dirty wire, dirty metal to be welded, wrong gas or too much stick out. Maybe in the process of applying the gel you cleaned out some spatter or something.Last edited by Louie1961; 02-18-2015 at 08:53 AM.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Usually adding nozzle gel leads to temporary porosity. I try to burn off the excess gel on scrap before welding on the joint to be welded. Looks like a gas issue to me.  Did you clean out the nozzle before adding the gel?
Reply:Originally Posted by kerfI was about to give up mig welding because I could never get a decent looking bead .  The settings are the same, I just added the gel to the nossle.  I feel a lot better now and can actually practice properly.Hobart 210 mvp, setting 5, wire speed 35, c25 gas at 15 cfh
Reply:Thanks for the replies.  I'll turn up the gas flow just in case but I didn't do anything else except add the gel.  I used my grinder and had shiny metal.  The first pic was shiny but I ran the beads one after another and the metal overheated I think.  before the gel I used the mig pliers to clean out the nozzle   every time after I ran a bead.  Maybe the gel cleaned out the holes where the gas comes out?
Reply:I agree with the guys that there is a coverage gas issue....Also looks cold or too much wire speed....try slowing down your wire speed next practice session...  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by kerfThanks for the replies.  I'll turn up the gas flow just in case but I didn't do anything else except add the gel.  I used my grinder and had shiny metal.  The first pic was shiny but I ran the beads one after another and the metal overheated I think.  before the gel I used the mig pliers to clean out the nozzle   every time after I ran a bead.  Maybe the gel cleaned out the holes where the gas comes out?
Reply:Just for the record, your "after" pics are not that good either. They still have porosity and would not be acceptable welds in my mind. I think for some reason you just have a little less porosity in the after beads. But this should not be the result you are aiming for. Turn up your gas, make sure the nozzle is clear/gas is flowing, and keep a short wire stick out. Having too long a stick out could also explain why the beads look cold. no more than 3/8 of an inch.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:I see an unhappy face in the lower middle bead."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumI see an unhappy face in the lower middle bead.
Reply:unhappy face yeah, I know the welds suck but they suck a little less now .  Im just happy they're not a horrible mess like before.  I fired up the machine about 30 minutes before I called it a night,  so those after beads only took about 5 minutes.  I'll put in some time under the hood tonight and post the progress.Thanks again for the feedback everyone.
Reply:Like the others are saying your beads look fairly cold as for the pinholes most likely such as the others were saying you might have too much wiring sticking out. That won't allow good gas coverage.
Reply:Where abouts in Texas are you?
Reply:What kind of wire are you using?
Reply:Well I was planning on a quick nap yesterday evening but when I woke up it was already this morning .I'm using .030 Hobart solid wire, and I'm in Houston.  I've been watching some videos on youtube and I think my torch angle is an issue as well.  I'll run a couple of beads today after making  adjustments.
Reply:Oldendum:.. Sometimes.. when I'm sitting there.. doing a #2... I see the the same thing on the vinyl floor...-Niche
Reply:Blow out the gas line on your machine. I had a similar problem recentlyI took the line off the machine and remove the liner and blew it all out with compressed airThe thing welds beautiful now.Miller 211Hypertherm PM 451961 Lincoln Idealarc 250HTP 221  True Wisdom only comes from Pain.
Reply:25cfh flow for mig. The anti spatter spray should be sprayed adjacent to the weld area, not directly where your welding. You have a lack of gas coverage.  Perhaps a pinched hose?JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:A buddy of mine had a similar issue. He spoke to his LWS and was told if the bottle sits too long, the gas will separate and cause porosity issues. My buddy ended up swapping bottles for a new one and his problem went away. I asked my LWS about this and he agreed. I was told it takes about 4 or 5 years for this to happen, but it can happen. Maybe something to think about.Operating Engineers Local 3Lincoln SA 200Victor TorchDewalt Grinder10 lbs SledgeWhat more do ya need!
Reply:These are some quick beads I ran after turning up the gas to 20 cfh on 3/16 steel.  The top left and 2 top right beads were one voltage setting higher.  I turned the voltage and wire speed down for the others.  Not pretty I know but it's encouraging, and I can only get better .  any advice on how to end the bead?Thanks again
Reply:You still have consistent porosity at the end of every bead. Something is not right. You also have a large crater/divot at the end where the porosity is. How do you end your bead? You should be leaving the end of your gun over the end of the weld and give the trigger one more quick pull to add a bit more filler to fill the crater. Leave the gun there briefly to ensure the shielding gas protects the end of the weld while its cooling.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:i think your material is not helping. even though it looks "shiny", its just shiny rust. take a hard grinding wheel and did into that stuff until it makes good sparks, and try another bead.bosses stuff:trailblazer 325maxstar 200my stuff:sa 200fronius transpocket 180100 amp Lincoln w/f97 f350 DITKevin
Reply:Originally Posted by 92dlxmani think your material is not helping. even though it looks "shiny", its just shiny rust. take a hard grinding wheel and did into that stuff until it makes good sparks, and try another bead.
Reply:Originally Posted by 92dlxmani think your material is not helping. even though it looks "shiny", its just shiny rust. take a hard grinding wheel and did into that stuff until it makes good sparks, and try another bead.
Reply:At the end of the bead, rather than just ending it abruptly, try lingering a brief moment, to allow the crater to fill, then even backtrack just 1/16 or so before releasing the trigger.Also, try some fresher steel. The area where you broke the arc is leaving some pretty rough looking craters, like there is some violent action going on in the puddle. Are you pulling the gun or pushing it?The way the bead is piling up, it looks like you are pulling the gun rather than pushing it, and are travelling too slowly.Where in Houston are you?I am near the beltway and 249.Last edited by geezerbill; 02-22-2015 at 04:27 PM.Hobart Beta-Mig 2511972 Miller AEAD-200LEMiller 250 TwinNorthern Ind. Hybrid 200Longevity Stick 140Longevity Migweld 200SThermal Arc Pak 3XR15 scfh is about 3 liters per minute.That's plenty for me running CO2.Its got to be contamination or a gas flow problem. Normally C25 welds are pretty and have almost 0 spatter.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:Fixed!The end of the gun hose had come loose and gas was leaking.  Tightened everything up and the difference was noticeable right away.  I'll start another thread with the new welds later today.Thanks for the help
Reply:Originally Posted by kerfFixed!The end of the gun hose had come loose and gas was leaking.  Tightened everything up and the difference was noticeable right away.  I'll start another thread with the new welds later today.Thanks for the help