Should I even attempt to fix this and how?!

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A friend of mine sent me these pics of the front end on his telehandler. Not sure how this wouldve even happened Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
Reply:How much is a replacement part if available ?Is it cast steel or cast iron .Need to know to make a game plan.
Reply:Appears to be some type of steering shaft knuckle attachment. A spindle of some sort.  I would strongly recommend getting a replacement spindle. Tolerances are tight for joint attachment.Millermatic 211Miller Syncrowave 350lx with cooler and tigrunner Thermal Dynamics cutmaster 811955 National Cylinder Gas O/A setup with original patina
Reply:if it's cast iron i would forget about a repair.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Buy new part... install on machine..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWBuy new part... install on machine.
Reply:From the looks of that one little spot that's not rusty it looks like it's been hanging on for a while.edit: On second look that looks like part of the hole with some grease still on it. Must have broke a while ago to rust up like that.Miller Challenger 172Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC 225/150Miller Maxstar 150 STLVictor 100CVictor JourneymanOxweld OAHarris O/ASmith O/A little torchNo, that's not my car.
Reply:I've seen the steering knuckle break on a Sellick telehandler too. It was welded and cracked again so I think that one was cast steel. Not sure what the one in the picture is made from but I don't know if cast iron rusts like that?Last edited by Welder Dave; 04-03-2016 at 10:39 PM.
Reply:No friggin way I'd even consider fixin it. It's way to critical a part, and after all, he broke the OEM version so it see's ruff use.
Reply:It should be a cast steel.  I repaired one on an older JCB rough terrain forklift and it's still going years later.  Just bevel it out really  good and weld it up with 7018 the same as any other other part.  If I remember correctly I pre heated it to help burn in a little deeper and had to clean up the inside of the hole afterwords
Reply:If it is cast steel, I agree on the preheat, not for better penetration because you want 100% regardless but so there isn't a quenching effect on the piece. Wrapping a welding blanket or something to let it cool slowly wouldn't be a bad idea either. On a vehicle, it's illegal to weld on steering parts but this is off-road construction equipment. Could have broke for all kinds of reasons but it broke. Nothing really to lose by trying to repair it if it is in fact cast steel.
Reply:Exactly, not something I would do on a highway vehicle, but on a construction vehicle that spends the majority of its life at 5 mph, I've got no problem fixing it.   I guess I should have worded the pre heat thing a little better, it wasn't to make up for a lack of penetration, but it's my general practice with cast anything.   Pre heat on cast steel is nowhere near as critical as cast iron, but the weld seems to run a lot smoother with heat, weather it's 7018 or dual shield.
Reply:Ok, off road...construction site....Loaded...Load lifted high....workers milling around near it.....Lift is maneuvering when knuckle snaps, and wheel slams to max either side and load gets slung on worker/workers, or machine pitches forward because it suddenly pigeontoed like Daffy duckNope, not me going to have my name on that weld.
Reply:That may be slightly over dramatic, but either way, we've all welded far more critical parts than that.  Heavy equipment repair is the main part of my business, I've welded together a whole lot of things that have more riding on them than a tie rod ear on a forklift.  Think of all the excavator booms that have been repaired and are now lifting thousands of pounds over the top of vehicles and swinging pipe into trenches with guys below, or trailer and truck frames that have been welded back together and are going down the road at 80,000 pounds, or even the millions of structural building welds that are out there holding up countless people.  That forklift ear I welded pails in comparison to the importance of some other repairs I've done.  Don't get me wrong, I'm all about avoiding unnecessary risk and liabilities, but if you're not confident in someone's life relying on a weld you made, you're in the wrong line of work.
Reply:Definitely JB weld, reinforced with duct tape, (Gorilla brand, not the Harbor Freight crap) then throw it in the scrap pile.RyanMiller Multimatic 200 tig/spool gun/wireless remoteMillermatic 350P, Bernard/XR Python gunsMiller Dynasty 350, Coolmate 3.5 & wireless remoteCK WF1 TIG wire feederMiller Spectrum 375 XtremeOptrel e684Miller Digital EliteMiller Weld-Mask
Reply:Oh, and the one I repaired years ago, it broke when it was backing up in third gear and the tire hit a K-rail.
Reply:Casey, I'D probably do the job too as long as they are paying. But someone asking how to do so, I personally don't get the warm fuzzies that they are even close to qualified or experienced enough: 1 post, no history, and "not knowing how it would break." They should try and practice on some cast steel first before even attempting it.You know if you've ever fixed heavy equipment,  that nothing is surprising which is broken out there! Rough operators run into crap, overload equipment, abuse equipment...Sometimes you just get the job done until more thorough repairs can be made.RyanMiller Multimatic 200 tig/spool gun/wireless remoteMillermatic 350P, Bernard/XR Python gunsMiller Dynasty 350, Coolmate 3.5 & wireless remoteCK WF1 TIG wire feederMiller Spectrum 375 XtremeOptrel e684Miller Digital EliteMiller Weld-Mask
Reply:I would have guessed that sort of part might well be forged steel. Looks like it was cracked some time ago (rust) before failing completely. A welded repair would be a big discontinuity in the grain structure that even heat-treating wouldn't entirely resolve, if it is a forging. At minimum tack on some run-on and run-off tabs at either end of the crack so as to get the arc well-established before it gets to the part, and so on. Immediately after, peen the weld aggressively, especially along either edge, not just the crown of the bead. But if you can find a good part anywhere at all, that might be greatly preferable. Remember, the country is full of ambitious lawyers and clients who want to hit the lottery with a lawsuit, even if the possibility of somebody getting hurt isn't part of the calculation. These are just ideas, offered with the understanding that I don't know the specific situation, and that my ideas are worth no more than you have paid me for them.If you can't find a replacement part, a good machinist could make one out of good steel with no grain discontinuities  .  .  .Last edited by old jupiter; 04-04-2016 at 12:33 PM.
Reply:For me it would make a difference how it broke. For instance if they hit something then I would weld it. If it broke from fatigue then not so much. If they hit something to break it it will likely hold til the next impact. Is that hole tapered for the ball joint or a straight through hole? If it's just a straight hole I would v the whole thing and weld it and re-drill the hole. That gets tougher if it's tapered. That does look like cast steel to me and not cast iron.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:The one I welded was a straight hole with a grade 5 bolt holding the tie rod to it.  I did have to re drill the hole afterwards and it was cast steel, not iron.  That part sees surprisingly little stress under normal use.  Just look in the picture at how little was holding it, and then realize that it ran like that long enough for the rest to rust.  Like I said, that one is pretty minor on the liability scale to the other repairs many of us have done without a second though
Reply:Ok, Thank you everyone for your input. I did finally post an introduction of my self over on the intro page(in case anyone wants to read it.) As Xryan point out "1 post no history". I threw the original post up in a hurry and I apologize for not being more detailed or even proof reading it.  The "Not sure how this wouldve even happened" should actually have said I'm not sure how this happened. As I said the owner sent me pics, I haven't been to the job site or seen what it hit. As was also pointed out "nothing breaking surprises me anymore." I was looking as much for opinions on liability and reliability of a repair. The advice on techniques is always welcome too. Both of those topics were covered quite well. Thank you. Really I need to talk to the owner of the machine. I'm fairly certain he actually drives this thing from job-site to job-site from time to time rather than pay to haul it so I have every intention of explaining to him that the liability of a repair instead of a replacement would be pretty dumb. If that thing broke at road speed while he was illegally moving it from one site to another and someone got hurt that would be a huge bad thing for him.
Reply:Is it possible this broke from a seized spindle? If this is the case jack the axle to determine the freedom of the turning parts. Wouldn't be the first time lack of grease broke the bank.
Reply:Could also be that somebody replaced the ball joint and lubed the taper with anti-seize and got "overexuberant" with the impact wrench tightening the nut. Seen it before.
Reply:If this is cast steel I would have no problem fixing it. That said I would not tell someone else how to do it. Life is a gamble so everything we fix has a possibility of breaking again.  This job is 80% prep and 20% weld skill.  Only real world experience will tell you what to do and how to do it.  The biggest thing is knowing when to fold and when to play.
Reply:Originally Posted by pajibsonOk, Thank you everyone for your input. I did finally post an introduction of my self over on the intro page(in case anyone wants to read it.) As Xryan point out "1 post no history". I threw the original post up in a hurry and I apologize for not being more detailed or even proof reading it.  The "Not sure how this wouldve even happened" should actually have said I'm not sure how this happened. As I said the owner sent me pics, I haven't been to the job site or seen what it hit. As was also pointed out "nothing breaking surprises me anymore." I was looking as much for opinions on liability and reliability of a repair. The advice on techniques is always welcome too. Both of those topics were covered quite well. Thank you. Really I need to talk to the owner of the machine. I'm fairly certain he actually drives this thing from job-site to job-site from time to time rather than pay to haul it so I have every intention of explaining to him that the liability of a repair instead of a replacement would be pretty dumb. If that thing broke at road speed while he was illegally moving it from one site to another and someone got hurt that would be a huge bad thing for him.Staring at it this morning, it looks like a tapered hole and staring at the tie rod end, it looks tapered.But that is just my opinion on what I see and perceive!
Reply:There's no tie rod in the picture, that's the end of the hydraulic ram.  The ram should go up into the broken hole from the bottom, then the tie rod goes into the other hole and across the the other side.
Reply:Originally Posted by wornoutoldwelderOk, off road...construction site....Loaded...Load lifted high....workers milling around near it.....Lift is maneuvering when knuckle snaps, and wheel slams to max either side and load gets slung on worker/workers, or machine pitches forward because it suddenly pigeontoed like Daffy duckNope, not me going to have my name on that weld.
Reply:It's cast steel. If an engineer used cast iron for that part he should be fired. 8018. If she lets go buy a new part. A quick fix is doable. How long she lasts, none of us knows.
Reply:You're right, a quick fix won't last very long, but a proper one will last as long as the rest of the machine.
Reply:I guess i took to long to get back to him and he had a "friend who is industrial welder" go out and fix it. That lasted a little less than 24 hours. New part is on the way. I went and looked at it. He just sorta cleaned it up and ran a bead or 2. Still had rust from the original crack. Etc etc. Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
Reply:Another "Professional" repair...Uh Huh......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:There's never enough money to do it right, but there's always enough money to do it over....No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:DamnEven I coulda done better than that...Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMiller 211Hypertherm PM 451961 Lincoln Idealarc 250HTP 221  True Wisdom only comes from Pain.
Reply:Now you can post in welding fails
Reply:That there was not even the start of doing it anywhere near right.  no prep work at all. No v-cut to get into the metal on any of the sides. No wonder it broke in less than 24 hours.Klutch 220si mig , stick, and dc tigHobart 140 AHP ALPHA 200X 2016Lotos LTP5000DSmith O/P
Reply:Hahahaha man please post these pics in the welding fail thread. Little to no prep, weld with no penetration. WowMillermatic 211Miller Syncrowave 350lx with cooler and tigrunner Thermal Dynamics cutmaster 811955 National Cylinder Gas O/A setup with original patina
Reply:Sometimes a good friend has to say "no".
Reply:JB Weld probably would have done a better job than those boogers.Sent from my SCH-I605 using TapatalkRyanMiller Multimatic 200 tig/spool gun/wireless remoteMillermatic 350P, Bernard/XR Python gunsMiller Dynasty 350, Coolmate 3.5 & wireless remoteCK WF1 TIG wire feederMiller Spectrum 375 XtremeOptrel e684Miller Digital EliteMiller Weld-Mask
Reply:What the heck is an industrial welder? When you need 100% penetration, 20% isn't going to cut it... ever! Idiot welder might be more appropriate. I've seen some bad repairs but that one is right up there with the worst.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWBuy new part... install on machine.
Reply:Bought salvage part, installed on machine. Also replace trunnion bearings and seals and adjusted preload.Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeAn experienced and skilled operator won't drive around with his load high up.  Nor will he or she be fully extended with a load and have ground workers under the load.
Reply:I am not an expert. I would not place people in danger or risk damaging property.I say no do not attempt to successfully repair that.I'm am new to welding. I do understand blacksmithing to some extent.I don't remember the exact wording I have read in a book.  That a weld needs to be as strong or stronger than the part being welded.The metal (grain and structure) has been obviously fatigued and stressed to the point of breaking once. There are obvious metal impurities and other design issues (holes in part) that would make any attempted repair extremely weak.Last edited by TemperedOne; 05-08-2016 at 12:22 AM.
Reply:And from the latest photos, it does appear to my old eyes to be tapered.Millermatic 211Everlast 200DX Thermal Arc 181iKlutch ST80i lunchbox stick welderLincoln Weld-Pak 100Century Stick welderPowermax 30 plasma cutterHenrob 2000 torchLogan 200 lathe (60 years old)Clausing 6339 Lathe (for sale)