Welding 3/8 caliper brackets (ar400) on 14 bolt axle?

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changing my drum brakes over to disc on the rear of my 14 bolt axle.  I have a miller 210 welder, just curious on anything special I should do other than short welds, metal is ar400.  I was hearing someone say I should pre-heat the axle tube before welding?  Also what setting would you think would work the best power/speed?Thanx,Todd
Reply:Originally Posted by zaktchanging my drum brakes over to disc on the rear of my 14 bolt axle.  I have a miller 210 welder, just curious on anything special I should do other than short welds, metal is ar400.  I was hearing someone say I should pre-heat the axle tube before welding?  Also what setting would you think would work the best power/speed?Thanx,Todd
Reply:Don't take this the wrong way. Take your vehicle to someone that has the verification and skill to do code quality welds every time. The reason  I say this is that what if your weld breaks in a crash. You did everything correctly (pre heat,post heat, x-ray quality ) a lawyer will have everything you own because you don't have the certification to do this type welding.
Reply:just go to tough stuff and buy the bolt on brackets. Great stuff and always a perfect fit, have used manyon 14 bolt rear ends.Ron
Reply:i miss spoke, it's Ruff Stuff Specialties  phone 916-600-1945.Ron
Reply:What would you use if not ar400?  I need custom brackets mine are 13in rotors ruff stuff for 12.5...
Reply:Originally Posted by zaktWhat would you use if not ar400?  I need custom brackets mine are 13in rotors ruff stuff for 12.5...
Reply:Ya why not just use mild steel? Cheaper and easy to cut
Reply:A-36, stay away from AR plate except for abrasion situations. Ditto the bolt on brackets.
Reply:BIG RED FLAG ALERT. If someone has to ask these questions and intends to use AR400 plate, they are the last person that should be welding anything on a vehicle that travels on public roadways.
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveBIG RED FLAG ALERT. If someone has to ask these questions and intends to use AR400 plate, they are the last person that should be welding anything on a vehicle that travels on public roadways.
Reply:Looks like A36, although I would like some diamond plate on my bumper Last edited by zakt; 02-28-2015 at 09:34 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by zakt I need custom brackets mine are 13in rotors, ruff stuff for 12.5...
Reply:I thought about that but I have the newer axle with the drum over the hub.  Im using 2001 brake rotors which also slip on over the hubs.  It puts the caliper bracket right on the 4 bolt area so had to cut that off.  Have a guy that is going to fab me the brackets and he is telling me the A36 or AR400 so .....  I did see someone using 1020 steel for brackets but of course just checking what would others opinions be... so lets not make this personal if you don't have something constructive to say keep it to yourself and don't answer.
Reply:I don't know this axle, but isn't the tube made of mild steel?  Where are the brackets being welded on?  I bet if you call one of the 4wd companies they will make a bolt on bracket, or you can design them up and take them to a water jet shop.  I see billboards for shops when driving in Cali.  Google water jet cutting services and you'll probably find a place that has the A36 on hand and can cut it for you.  They probably have a minimum run but bolt on won't warp your tubes.
Reply:It's not personal. You're asking questions that should be fairly common knowledge for someone doing what you want to do. If you don't know what material to use or even where to set your welder, it's logical to question if you have the necessary skills to do the job. You came on a forum with 100's of years of combined experience. Do you want people to just say go ahead, it will be fine? A lot of people on here have seen the results of someone welding something that was out of their skill set. I'm just asking if you're ready to do this job. There's nothing wrong with getting someone with more experience to help you weld it.
Reply:I am not a "wizard with a rod" but I'm with Dave on this one. I think Clint said it best with "a man HAS to know his limitations". ANYTHING you do, you have to know enough about it to know what can go wrong and if you have exceeded the acceptable level of risk. I will weld a workbench b/c if it fails nobody is under it if it fails. Conversely I know just enough that I should not weld a cracked excavator boom b/c a guy can be near it while lifting a structure (manhole for example) and things might go wrong.I know not to use AR even if it is free because it is completely the wrong application, I wouldn't ask the best welder I know to weld that.To piggyback on Dave's suggestions- find a welder that wants to work with you, that has a handle on your skillset. I have such a relationship with a guy knows what I can and can't do and will steer me in the right direction. A couple of times I have sent work to him that I can do but I want done better- he even said " you can do this, why are you sending this me?" Another time I asked him for advice on a small repair for a nonpressure tank, he suggested maybe he should do it b/c of crack propagation. He never takes all the work even if he thinks I can do it, often offers tips and discusses technique... just a cool guy. Find yourself one of these and listen to Clint (but not the empty chair, it will tell you what you want to hear)Depend on good skill not good luck!Thunderbolt AC/DC330AB/P + Bernard coolerSyncrowave 250Oxy/Ace torchDayton 160 MIG6CF pot with 185 compressorToo much big equipmentEven more small tools
Reply:now what about SAE-AISI 1020 vrs A36?  I see the Ultimate Tensile Strength MPa on A36 is larger but 1020 has larger Yield Strength MPa?
Reply:pick up your telephone and call.. Ruff Stuff Specialties phone 916-600-1945. and ask them what kind of steel they use to make the brackets..then you will know the correct material instead of guessing....Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:I do know what they use, they say 1018 or 1020. I would like to see what everyone else opinion and why.  I actually think the A36 would be better choice as AISI 1020 steel is used in case hardened condition or am I wrong here? FORD STERLING DISC BRAKE ADAPTERS 84-94Part Number DBA-STERLINGFord Sterling Disc Brake Adapters 84-94DescriptionThis is our 1984-1994 Ford Sterling Bolt On Disc Brake Adapter Kit. These are CNC High-Def Plasma Cut in House from 3/8" Hot Rolled A36 Steel Plate. Then they are CNC Machined for perfect caliper mounting.There is still no lighter or less expensive way to mount your brakes than with weld on mounts. Welding on the axle tubes will warp them, but they can be straightened by heating on the opposite side of the tube. The 4 piston bracket is CNC machined from 3/8" HR 1020 steel and threaded 7/16-20. Can be used on weldable spindles as well.so once again which is better and why looks like both are used, thoughts?Last edited by zakt; 03-02-2015 at 07:21 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by zaktI do know what they use, they say 1018 or 1020. I would like to see what everyone else opinion and why.  I actually think the A36 would be better choice as AISI 1020 steel is used in case hardened condition or am I wrong here?
Reply:roadkillbob,Are you suggesting that major manufacturers always go the route of safety over total cost involved? If that is what you are saying I would love to go down that road.Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v  Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain
Reply:I think what he's saying is call the place and buy their brackets! They can't be that expensive. The more the OP posts, the more it looks like a job he shouldn't be attempting. First he thinks AR400 then is told A36 and then is told 1020 but then thinks A36 is best. It's almost as bad as a former boss saying it's OK to weld structural members without a stamped engineers approval and the engineer can approve it after it's done. It doesn't work that way. Buy the brackets, bolt them on and be done with it. It you can't afford to buy them, wait till you can.
Reply:In post number 14, he states he already cutoff the 4 bolt bracket mount pieces?
Reply:Then make the bracket out of A36 and take it to a welder that does this work.  Might get it done for a 6 pack on the right day.Originally Posted by Joker11roadkillbob,Are you suggesting that major manufacturers always go the route of safety over total cost involved? If that is what you are saying I would love to go down that road.