Student Needs advice/tips/tricks/2 cents or more on 3G vertical up

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I'm halfway thru school and not necessarily struggling with 3G up but more or less wanting to understand the physics and the why I'm doing what I'm doing and to get better it's just how I learn best...we are using Lincoln 3/32 7018s on 2 7X2" plates tacked to and bisected by an 8X3" middle plate creating 4 90° pretend butts to work with,(plates are about 1/4" thick)  I'm my new Lincoln 210mp which I love more than my car, anyways this is just for practice to save metal I guess(cuz it's SO expensive right? Anyways) but the test  be the standard 45 beveled plates over base plate SO....we are using a root pass option ~ stringer- esque or tiny weave which I use with a slight slight pause at the toes and I have NO problems with this I use almost the whole rod(4" left mYbe) then on the next pass we are practicing both sunshine a ans stringers, heres where I want help, I'd like to know in text rather than video maybe an explanation of the stringers and especially the weave and what I'm looking for before during and after the pass(puddle action, technique, etc) we are told each rainbow is 1 diameter up each back and forth and pause slightly but NOT the one Mississippi of the weave cover pass, we're running two sunshines and then the weave but 2nd shine NOT necessary if done right but I just don't know what I'm looking for...the weave I think I do quite well but a few dips between them on the toes sometimes, stringers also confuse me a lot cuz I'm a bad *** on vertical up usually but something about the angles and geography of going over existing welds...also should I be waiting longer than usual between passes die to extreme heat will that compromise weld or my process? I just know when running beads on a plate for practice it was not this hot since not same place one after another- also I'm running about 80-85 amps opinion here please ..I much appreciate any help, I love welding and am obsessed with the journey to master it, thanks -Marshall
Reply:Sunshine and rainbows? What kind of welding school are you at?
Reply:Dallasnewb - what the hell are you talking about???More punctiation and paragraphs with clear questions.Here is a good video from Jody - he has some of the best stuff out there in my opinion.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Obviously school for idiots like me, rainbows/sunshine are like rainbows that's why they're called that, see? Upside down "U"
Reply:Sorry basically just wanting technique advice on 3G vert up 7018s but the plates are not flat there's a ninety degree angle w 3 plates tacked together,(makes 4 practice corners, welded to a stand) no gap just practice, 80 amps on 1/4in thick? More? Do u hold a full second on the toes of a weave? How tight should they be?(how much u go up each side)We were told half the diameter of the rod for each time u go across
Reply:Bless you for your enthusiasm but for the Love of God young man  HIT THE RETURN KEY ONCE IN A WHILE Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Thanks for the videos I hear Jody is awesome
Reply:Sorry I was voice typing most of it. Live and learn😂
Reply:Learn to read/manipulate the puddle. With vertical up I teach students to read the puddle using an exaggerated weave. It's like stacking one horizontal bead on top of each other. I tell students to watch carefully the arc and my puddle as I weld. At each end I pause long enough for the puddle to catch up to the arc, before I move up slightly and start back across. On the other side I again pause for the puddle to catch up to the arc and repeat.My giant weave looks like crap, but it allows students to watch the puddle follow the arc. If they say they can see this, I'll repeat the same drill, but cut my weave in 1/2 and see if they still can pick this up. If so I usually transfer to fillet joints, and again do a big weave. On this I'll vary things so they can see if the puddle doesn't reach the arc, I end up with undercut on the edges. If I travel at a constant speed, I end up with a droopy center. If on the wide weave, they say they can see me pause for the puddle to catch the arc, I'll do this again cutting my weave in half again. Eventually my side to side motion is a tiny wiggle and I'm going so fast, they can no longer see me pause, but I'm still doing it each time.This is easier to show than explain most times. Typically once a student "gets" it, their skills overall improve greatly..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thank u very descriptive, I think I get most of it but when u say cutting it in half do u mean the width? As to u run diagonal side to side or is it:rest, up, across, rest, up....? Wait ok I see where u said stacking horizontal, I get it thank u so much...is my amperage correct approx? 80-85?
Reply:Yeah by 1/2 I'm talking about overall width. I find it easiest to start with super wide weaves as it allows the student time to absorb that I've paused for the puddle to catch up to the arc, and then watch as the puddle travels after the arc as I transition t the next side. Hence when I'm done the bead is often ugly as all I really want them to do is be able to see the puddle and arc at this point.If anything as I move from one demo to the next, I tighten up my side to side passes. While on my 1st couple of demos, my distance from pass to pass vertical might be 1/4", so I can go slow and show them what is happening, as I make the weaves smaller, the distance between each side to side group decreases. At the end, I might only shift up 1/16" or less on each side to side pass, and my total left/right motion might be even less. Smaller and faster means you don't have to lay down as much material each time, and you can make things flatter and the toes wash in better. That's just the way I like to do it. I've seen some guys do bigger motions that still work well. That just works for them. You will need to find what works for you.Amperage sounds about right. Most of what we use is 1/8" 7018, so I don't use too much 3/32". I will say that hotter is better. Many times guys want to run cold and that just adds to their problems. I run as hot as I can manage and still control the puddle. Some days with 1/8" 7018 I might be as cold as 115 amps DC+, and other days I find I can control things as hot as 135 amps. 120-125 is about where I try to set the machine on a test run and see how I feel that day with what rods I have at hand, on that machine..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Vertical up, 1/8 7018JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:I can't tell you how much you've helped me it's amazing how well you verbalize what you can do with the rod in with the rod does, I can only imagine what a great while you are I've got a whole lot to go on here and again I can't thank you enoughSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Snopro is that yours? PristineSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by DallasnewbSnopro is that yours? PristineSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:WowSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:I'll go up against Jody anytime.Burning 7018 rod on a daily basis is how I feed my family.This was a 20" long vertical up weld on an I beam gusset/stiffener. Done yesterday.Last edited by snoeproe; 03-03-2015 at 09:18 PM.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeI'll go up against Jody anytime.Burning 7018 rod on a daily basis is how I feed my family.
Reply:Nah. I'm not into that. It just takes practice guys. Keep at it and if it's not working, make changes until it works. I run  a Z weave pattern on almost all my vertical up 7018 welds.Ironworker welder by trade.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeNah. I'm not into that. It just takes practice guys. Keep at it and if it's not working, make changes until it works. I run  a Z weave pattern on almost all my vertical up 7018 welds.Ironworker welder by trade.
Reply:Like Jody, I will always weave a vertical up 7018 weld if I can, which I always can. If I have to run a stringer for some reason, my stringer still has a little slight side to side motion.  With a weave, I feel I have much more control over how it turns out.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeLike Jody, I will always weave a weave a vertical up 7018 weld if I can, which I always can. If I have to run a stringer for some reason, my stringer still has a little slight side to side motion.  With a weave, I feel I have much more control over how it turns out.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveAny chance you've tried making a video?I tried once - can't see a dang thing clearly.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWEither you or her needs to stop breathing so heavy on the camera lens and fogging it up.
Reply:On a weld like that gusset/stiffener, a lot of,guys will run 3 stringer passes to get their 6mm or 8mm of weld in there and that's fine. I do it with one pass, a weave. QC likes my work. I can't remember the last time I had to do a repair because of a visual failure.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720Would y'all say the Lincoln foundation arc handbook ("the bible")has any place in a newcomers hands yet?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by DallasnewbWould y'all say the Lincoln foundation arc handbook ("the bible")has any place in a newcomers hands yet?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Thx it's a lot of stuff but I suppose u gotta start somewhere, I'm told it's virtually irrefutable front to back Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:I have the Bible. It's the best reference book out there. The answer to almost any question you have is in there. Any material and any process.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720