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Am gathering materials for building a RF from a 24" x 69" 120 gallon old air tank. It is 3/16" thick, minus whatever rust I find when the door is cut out. This will be ground mounted on casters or wheels. The support frame came from the integral aluminum frame of a Navy carrier ship's desk which was never installed. Feet on the desk frame are steel explosion welded to aluminum, so I'll use the frame upside down so the feet can be welded to the tank. This is planned to be a single door two rack unit with the door at 48".This is my first smoker build and my first real welding project. Lots of welding equipment, limited skills/knowledge.Here are some shots of the tank and frame at it is now. With construction going on around our house, I can't get it to concrete for a solid work surface for a while.With the pipe screwed in I can manipulate the tank and is gives a point to attach a come-a-long to pull it back up hill on the tilted frame. I'll be glad to get it on a solid surface in a week or two.Legs at the firebox end with overhang removed (aluminum fillet weld and 1/2" of the explosive welded plate) to allow the firebox to be bolted to the 3/8" thick aluminum frame.Need to buy 1/4" steel plate for rectangular firebox and the plenum. Also need to buy 3/4" #9 expanded metal for the 2 planned grill racks. The rest of the materials I pretty much have in my collected scrap. Will try to post often and appreciate any advice. Jerry30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30" vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:Glad to see this project getting kicked off! I'll be really glad when I kick mine off!GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:And your using a 115v mig, RIGHT??Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:I would use my Lincoln SP125+, but I sold it. So,I guess I'm stuck with my TA fabricator and the tombstone for this. Oh well...Last edited by storeman; 02-02-2015 at 05:18 PM.30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30" vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:@ storeman - so it begins. Looking forward to seeing you progress with this build. She'll be smok'n!"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:I hope so. Lots of calculations to do. Several sites have differing formulas for success. 30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30" vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:@ storeman - you scan this calculator? www.feldoncentral.com/bbqcalculator.html. Fluid (air) flow is key. Use'n this for a prelim design on a smoker build."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by ManoKai@ storeman - you scan this calculator? www.feldoncentral.com/bbqcalculator.html. Fluid (air) flow is key. Use'n this for a prelim design on a smoker build.
Reply:"@ storeman - you scan this calculator? www.feldoncentral.com/bbqcalculator.html. Fluid (air) flow is key. Use'n this for a prelim design on a smoker build." Originally Posted by Arctic98zThis is a great tool for planning. Run some numbers through the calculator to get an idea on sizes and openings. The only thing I did different on mine was made the firebox to cooking chamber opening about 120% of what was recommended, and the opening at the end of the reverse flow plate ever so slightly larger than that. She runs like a champ, steady and even temps all day long. Looking forward to seeing this come together!
Reply:Originally Posted by storeman"@ storeman - you scan this calculator? www.feldoncentral.com/bbqcalculator.html. Fluid (air) flow is key. Use'n this for a prelim design on a smoker build."I can't figure out how to do multiple quotes in one response.Thanks to both of you.http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/ (Dave) has some recommended modifications to that formula for RF smokers. Arctic, it looks like you may have used them. I also plan to do so. Nothing counts until one cuts. Too cold to do it tomorrow but I hope to do some cute this week.Jerry
Reply:@ Arctic98z - by happenstance, on paper my main chamber to fire box ratio is 'zactly 120%. Glad to hear that you have empirical evidence with your actual smoker supporting this ratio. Mahalo brah! "Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by storemanI would use my Lincoln SP125+, but I sold it. So,I guess I'm stuck with my TA fabricator and the tombstone for this. Oh well...
Reply:Originally Posted by storemanI can't figure out how to do multiple quotes in one response.Thanks to both of you.
Reply:Bist,Having just imbibed and eaten, I fear that I'm not up to that dance tonight. Will try it in the morning so you can see yourself in the marquee. 30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30" vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:Originally Posted by storemanBist,Having just imbibed and eaten, I fear that I'm not up to that dance tonight. Will try it in the morning so you can see yourself in the marquee.
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauIf you look to the right of where it says "Reply With Quote"(it says multi quote if you put your cursor on it for a second), you will see another icon, just click on that for each post you want to quote in the order you want to quote them. Then after that, click Reply With Quote for all of them to show up for quoting. Make sure the last one you want to quote you click that icon first before the quote button. Put your cursor under the first one and type your response, then move down below the next and add a response and so on till you have responded to all, and then post quick reply or submit whichever is available.
Reply:Hot darn!30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30" vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:Originally Posted by docweldersman; forward or reverse- what's the diff which way the smoke goes? anyway, that's an interesting collection of components you got. explosion welded feet and base from a carrier desk could mean you got a good army/navy surplus nearby but i'm thinking you got a better source. i have the lincoln sp125 and find it a good machine.
Reply:Originally Posted by storemanHot darn!
Reply:Thanks Bist. 30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30" vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:I can offer a some advice from what I have gained through experience. - Design in a sacrificial ash pan - I will save the bottom of your firebox- Make sure your firebox air intake is slightly below wood (fuel) level. You want to make sure your airflow enters the firebox, can travel through your coals and up into the cooking chamber. I have seen several rigs where the air intake is at coal height or above coal height and the rig owner is complaining about low temps. That is because the oxygen rich air is flowing over the fire and not through it. - As mentioned, make your firebox intake larger than the calculator recommends. You can always damper down, but once wide open, that's it. - Mount your exhaust flues on the end of your cooking chamber, above the fire box, not on top of the cooking chamber. You want the exhaust to exit the chamber meat level. If possible, mount them where they have contact with the fire box. The hotter you get your flue's the better it draws air. - Put two grease drains on your cooking chamber as opposed to one, one on each end. - If you have the means and your not in a time crunch, insulate the thing. Double the work, but well worth it. - And, a larger firebox doesn't hurt either, but one too small, well, monkey dead, show overMy $.02.
Reply:Another good site,http://www.thesmokering.com/forum/index.php
Reply:Originally Posted by OLD18I can offer a some advice from what I have gained through experience. - Design in a sacrificial ash pan - I will save the bottom of your firebox- Make sure your firebox air intake is slightly below wood (fuel) level. You want to make sure your airflow enters the firebox, can travel through your coals and up into the cooking chamber. I have seen several rigs where the air intake is at coal height or above coal height and the rig owner is complaining about low temps. That is because the oxygen rich air is flowing over the fire and not through it. - As mentioned, make your firebox intake larger than the calculator recommends. You can always damper down, but once wide open, that's it. - Mount your exhaust flues on the end of your cooking chamber, above the fire box, not on top of the cooking chamber. You want the exhaust to exit the chamber meat level. If possible, mount them where they have contact with the fire box. The hotter you get your flue's the better it draws air. - Put two grease drains on your cooking chamber as opposed to one, one on each end. - If you have the means and your not in a time crunch, insulate the thing. Double the work, but well worth it. - And, a larger firebox doesn't hurt either, but one too small, well, monkey dead, show overMy $.02.
Reply:$100 - $150 would be a good price for that plate. $200 wouldn't be terrible.GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:I need to find new sources. About $200 to $250 for a 4x8 sheet of 1/4" newSeanMiller CST 280Lincoln 210 MP^^ that price is heavy. We pay $165-175 for A36 hot rolled plate 1/4" x 48" x 96" (326 lbf)."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Here is one I built a couple of years ago. It was based on a 250 gallon propane tank. My RF plate and fire box are all made of 3/8" plate because that is what I had the most of. The bad thing is is very tail heavy. There are a lot of good ideas floating around on The Smoke Ring web site. A member by the name of KAM is a huge asset to the build section of the site. They also have a ratio calculator for figuring fire box size, stack height, fire box opening and other details that make the smoker work as it should. Dan D. Attached ImagesManipulator Of Metal
Reply:Thanks guys for the pricing feedback. We shall see in the morning. DanD,That is quite a smoker! Thanks for the advice.Jerry 30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30" vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:How is it coming? Just had this bad boy delivered yesterday! GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:Gravel, That will make one heck of a smoker! I've been busy but, because I had the fire box lid vibrate off the box while slicing on it with an angle grinder, I'm taking a couple of days off. It landed edge-first on the bridge of my left foot. I don't think anything is broken but a lot of swelling, so will lay low for a couple of days.Finished up what I intended to do yesterday and took some pics. I'm going to post a bunch of pictures to update from when the rig was sitting in the back yard before the snows started. Accident ticks me off. I was on a roll!Jerry 30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30" vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:Originally Posted by GravelHow is it coming? Just had this bad boy delivered yesterday!
Reply:Well, at insistence of Wifey, just got back from urgent care. X-ray shows one cracked and chipped bone. Not too much can be done about it so will boot up tomorrow and work through it.30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30" vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:Some comments to accompany pictures. Tires are 10" airless from Northern Tool. I turned a piece of 7/8" rod down to 1/2" or 5/8" (can't remember which) at the ends to form an axle. Drilled through the 3/8" thick aluminum frame to insert axle and mounted plates on outside edges to prevent axle shifting.Fabricated a front steering wheel so I have a tricycle arrangement to make easy sharp turns, This is also an air-free wheel from NT, I believe 8". Made a handle from some stainless tubing I had with a "T" handle, kind of like a toy wagon handle so it can be pulled and maneuvered. Wheel pivots on 2 pieces of 1/2" steel. No bearing between the flats, just some white grease. Axel is 3/4" turned down from my 7/8" bar stock. Door is 48" wide and is edged with 1 3/4" wide 3/32" flat stock. Tank is 3/32" thick. End opening for firebox has been cut right at the weld seam. Will use the seam rise as the dam against possible back-flow of grease into the firebox. Not likely. Hinges are home-made from 1/2" black pipe, the 1 3/4" flat stock and 9/16" rod. The 3" center section is welded to some 3" flat stock 3/32.All the welds are TIG other than the very sloppy ones on the bottom and sides of the door edge where I demonstrated that I forgot everything I thought I knew about stick welding. Had gas problems with my MIG machine but solved them in time to weld the firebox yesterday. Used a rosebud tip on my O/A and a couple of pipe clamps to get the door curve back under control.30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30" vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:I wound up not buying from the scrap yard. He wanted 50 cents a pound for the 4x10 plate. Got the new sheet of 1/4" 4x10' for $225, about 55 cents a pound delivered. Couldn't find 5" pipe at scrap yard but managed to get a 66" drop of schedule 40 from my steel supplier. Not cheap at $66.00. 4x8' sheet of #9 flat expanded was $60....pleasant surprise.Had the yard shear the 4' x 10' steel plate to fire box piece dimensions and RF plate size. For the $65 shear fee, I figure it saved me a ton of work and consumables. Steel order came in Wednesday. Shears of two 24" square pieces were cut trapezoidal. Will be replaced by the steel yard. I squeezed the project into my little 12x12 project/storage room because of the snow.Used the clamps I bought a few months ago to square the box panels. Not what they were intended for but worked well. Did all the spot tacks by tig fusion. That worked very well. Before final assembly I migged the interior seams of the box.Shims to keep the box level made fit up easier than I expected. Attached Images30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30" vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:Hurt myself while squaring up the off-square pieces for the top and bottom because I didn't want to wait until next week for replacement metal. Replacements will go in stock as they are not requesting these back after seeing pictures. Tough mig welding for me inside the tank and inside the fire box trying to seal the box to the tank. Could not get into positions where I could see clearly, so much was by feel. Sloppy welds but the unit is closed up. Chose to do the curve weld to the box lid from the inside and am glad I did as it looks okay from the outside.After I dropped the box lid on my foot, finished the inside tank welding, welded the lid on and cut and mounted the door. Then called it a day. I'll mount flanges inside the box for the door to seal against.For a first project, I feel pretty good about this so far. Much more to do. Thanks for looking.30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30" vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:Looking good Storeman. I am sorry about your foot accident. Hope it gets well soon. You are going to have a heck of a smoker. I noticed your blue clamps. Do you remember where you got them. I sure could use a set. Richey
Reply:Glad to see you are making some progress. Good deal on the steel and smart decision to get them to shear the pieces for you. That likely saved you money and definitely saved you time and energy.Reading about the door falling on your foot made me cringe. I've been there. Glad you got it looked at but not sure what they can do for you since a cast doesn't do much for a broken foot. Could have been worse.That tank in the picture I took has to be a good 40' long. It would take a few acres of California redwood to keep that thing hot enough to cook a herd of cattle on! Keep up the good work and don't drop anything else on your feet! GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:Originally Posted by richeyLooking good Storeman. I am sorry about your foot accident. Hope it gets well soon. You are going to have a heck of a smoker. I noticed your blue clamps. Do you remember where you got them. I sure could use a set. Richey
Reply:Originally Posted by storemanHurt myself while squaring up the off-square pieces for the top and bottom because I didn't want to wait until next week for replacement metal. Replacements will go in stock as they are not requesting these back after seeing pictures. Tough mig welding for me inside the tank and inside the fire box trying to seal the box to the tank. Could not get into positions where I could see clearly, so much was by feel. Sloppy welds but the unit is closed up. Chose to do the curve weld to the box lid from the inside and am glad I did as it looks okay from the outside.After I dropped the box lid on my foot, finished the inside tank welding, welded the lid on and cut and mounted the door. Then called it a day. I'll mount flanges inside the box for the door to seal against.For a first project, I feel pretty good about this so far. Much more to do. Thanks for looking.
Reply:Thanks for the comments.My blue clamps came from this e-bay seller (picture is not blue but clamps are).http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Welder-Wel...item541a8de953Northern Tool is 45 miles from me and charges sales tax. This guy was free shipping. That made the difference to me. I don't have the need for 4 (yet).30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30" vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:At this point the smoker is not attached to the frame. It sits so solidly that I may leave it that way. Simpler if I later decide to move the smoker to a trailer mount. In that instance the frame would be too tall to cook standing on the ground. Meanwhile, it will reside on the concrete patio outside the door to the welding room. Haven't decided yet but believe I'll use 8 small 2 1/4" vents way low, about an inch off the bottom, with 4 on each side. 2 or 3 more above the door. All with damper plates. I need 8.2 vents of that size to satisfy the formula. The fire box is 129% of recommended minimum.I'd like to be able to bump up the temps to about 450 to be able to do burgers/dogs/chicken for an annual big retiree picnic we host. Usually about 75 folks. We always wind up borrowing the Rotary Club big 30" x 60" portable grill for the picnic. I don't see why the smoker can't be fired up to that heat level. With 2 racks, I will have at least that amount of cooking space. Anyone got any experience trying to do that?30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30" vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:My experience with RF smokers tells me that 450 is going to be a bit ambitious.Lincoln Powermig 255Hypertherm Powermax 45Thermal Arc 161SOxweld 24R OA TorchStill Looking for an Old Round Top Idealarc 250
Reply:I was afraid of that. 450 does seem to be ambitious. One can hope.Guess I could do a 1" box frame covered with expanded metal, put it on the return plate add a few of cans of burning charcoal and just cook over direct heat. Hadn't thought of that until now. Not a bad solution except for the 1/4" plate only being about 5" below the cook surface. Will have to watch flare ups, but that is true grilling.Thanks for your comment.30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30" vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:The one thing about using a side smoker as a grill, I don't get a good sear like I do with the flame directly. However, see what temps you can hit when you do the intial burn. If you don't get to the temps you want, your grill idea sounds good to me too.Lincoln Powermig 255Hypertherm Powermax 45Thermal Arc 161SOxweld 24R OA TorchStill Looking for an Old Round Top Idealarc 250
Reply:Originally Posted by morgaj1The one thing about using a side smoker as a grill, I don't get a good sear like I do with the flame directly. However, see what temps you can hit when you do the intial burn. If you don't get to the temps you want, your grill idea sounds good to me too.
Reply:From firebox seals to smoke last 2 days! Not a real burn in but enough to tell me where I might need to adjust sealing angles. Got to 350 degrees before i left it to burn out. I've been pretty active the last 2 days, even with the foot injury. Not sure of picture limit so will post several times with several pics that should be pretty clear. None of the welds have been cleaned up. Putting the chimney on required moving the rig outside and height will restrict it from coming back into the basement, so remainder (cooking grate supports, handles, etc.) will have to be done outside. Supposedly a break is coming in the weather. I sure hope so. Starting off with one of the last I posted. I thought I got several in the shop before moving outside but must have had movie or something on the darned camera. SorryJerry 30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30" vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:Next few pictures are also of the burning unit. Ambient temp was 33 degrees. I put a couple small pieces of 2x4 in and 2 small (6x14 maybe) pieces of pithy maple. Added 2 more maple and It got to 300 degrees within an hour and at one point (when I left to take a shower) it was burning clean with no smoke and the thermometer, which I put into an existing fitting near the end of the RF plate, was at 300 and rising. Checked it 90 minutes later, (long well deserved shower and a couple of cocktails). Thermometer was at 80 degrees but still a few coals left in the FB so I stuck a couple more pieces of the pithy maple in and said goodnight. Overall, very happy. No firebox door leaks. IMHO minimal leaks around the CC door as shown by smoke. Think they can be sealed pretty easily and I haven't added any clamp down mechanism. (Don't want to unless necessary.) Tomorrow will work on the cook grates. Handles will be last. BTW: Big brown tank is 500 gallon water storage, just in case. Makes me wonder why/how anyone would take on a 500 gallon smoker project....yes I know they are longer and narrower than my water tank....BUT... my smoker is 120 gallons! Hurts to think about that big of a project. One more series of pics coming. Jerry Attached ImagesLast edited by storeman; 03-05-2015 at 10:01 PM.30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30" vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:Last set. Note how clean the burn was in the previous picture. Gives me hope I can use this as a reverse flow convection oven with the right fuel at high temps. BTW: Chimney pipe is 36" above the top of the cook chamber in deference to advice from Dave Omak from http://www.smokingmeatforums.com I'm whipped and am out of here. BTW: Got to rebuild the steering linkage....too wimpy. Jerry30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30" vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:Great job, bro! You really put the time in to get it done so quick!On the big smokers (500 gallon and up) you need more than 1 person to be able to prepare the meat, tend to the fire/temp, tend to turning the meat, etc.When my dad had a cook team with a 750 gallon smoker they could cook fifty 12 pound briskets at the same time and that was a single level grate. It took a minimum of 3 people to run the operation when it was in full swing (without doing any serving).GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:Originally Posted by GravelGreat job, bro! You really put the time in to get it done so quick!On the big smokers (500 gallon and up) you need more than 1 person to be able to prepare the meat, tend to the fire/temp, tend to turning the meat, etc.When my dad had a cook team with a 750 gallon smoker they could cook fifty 12 pound briskets at the same time and that was a single level grate. It took a minimum of 3 people to run the operation when it was in full swing (without doing any serving). |
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