New forge

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I finally got my forge built and got 3 blowers to try. A friend came by monday night with a little coal so we gave it a shot. I'm no expert but I believe that it worked flawlessly. The firepot is similar to DSW's, Thanks DSW. I made forge tools to start with and then a crappy hardy cutoff tool made from the front spindle off of an old Allis Chalmers tractor.
Reply:a couple more pics. We were runnin out of coal when I remembered to take pics.
Reply:Looks like you're off to a good start.  Keep at it.AR. Hillbilly, check your PM's...I sent you a message.Last edited by shortfuse; 04-23-2015 at 10:45 PM.
Reply:Yea... I've never got back to my old forge... a future project. I had to cheat and make a cutoff tool with the welder and grinder so I'd have something to put in the Hardy of my anvil. You're lookin good with a hammer in your hand!250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:I moved this to it's own thread so others can comment and you can continue to add to this in the future if need be. If you'd like another title, let me know and I'll change it.Forge looks great. Cut off hardy looks really good despite what you might think. Axle material is supposed to be great for making tools like that and hammers, I haven't had the opportunity to play with anything like that, though I unearthed some big bucket pins cleaning the shop today. There may be a hammer or two in one of those later.Fire looks a little high in the pict of you working. If you are using bituminous coal, you probably don't need to run the blower full time like you do if using anthracite. You'll save on fuel and get more out of your coal if you either lower the air blast (Shortfuse has a good how to on how to make a nice DIY air gate) or add an easy to reach on off switch. I know several guys who are using one of the HF foot switches for stationary power tools for this with good results.An important safety note: There is a reason cut offs like that are often referred to as "butchers". It is a very bad practice to have one in the hardy hole and be beating on an anvil. One slip, and it will sever a finger on your hammer hand. If you need to swap back and forth between the anvil face and the cut off, best suggestion is to set the cut off in a vise or make a separate block for holding hardy's. Shift from the anvil to the vise/block as needed and there is less chance of an accidental injury. If you just need to sever stock, then want to work it, remove the hardy as soon as your cut is made, then work on the anvil, or work stock like say a nail, where you taper and then make a cut at the end, leave the cut off out of the hardy hole until needed. That way there isn't a chance of injury..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks DSW and all others for this. Thanks for the info DSW. I'll make a place to keep Hardy tools and not keep them on the anvil. I hope to keep all my fingers. I've grown to like them even though they don't always do like I want them to. The forge blower has a gate on the intake but it's a pita to operate. I plan to make a rod to opoerate it. I really like the idea of the foot switch. We wasted a lot of coal. I don't know what kind of coal it was. It came from Vinita Ok. I just bought 100 lbs of coal (again I don't know what kind) that is much cleaner and all closer in size. It seems heavy compared to the first batch. How can I learn one kind of coal from the other?Thanks for all the assistance. I'm sure I'll have many more questions in the future.
Reply:You can ask the people you get it from as to what type it is. They usually know, but not always. Knowing where it's coming from also can tell you what type of coal it is.I'll try to remember in the next week to grab a few pieces from the shop and take a few picts. Hard coal or anthracite usually has a shiny look, tends to want to break up in planes almost like slate does and is heavier than soft coal/bitumnious. Soft coal I get has a dull black color and breaks up into lumps. It's also lighter in weight. Soft coal also "cokes" when burned. Coke has a greyish color and is really light in weight. It's what is left after all the impurities are burned out. Hard coal doesn't coke when it burns. Hard coal burns a lot hotter on average, but as mentioned it needs a good constant flow of air to maintain the fire. Soft coal will stay lit for a while if you "bank" the fire by burying it in damp coal even with the air off. In class we'd often bank our fires just before lunch, so we didn't have to relight the fire from scratch. Usually just turn the blower back on and slowly build up the air as the fire increased. Hard coal will go out or die down if too much coal is added at once and with no air, it goes out in maybe 15 minutes or so. I can light soft coal with just a few sheets of newspaper. The hard coal I have, I have to have a good size charcoal fire going to get the coal to light..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Looks great..all you have to make is a little side grill for a few steaks for lunch time...Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:AR,We get our coal from Vinita, been using it for years.  It's pretty fair bituminous.
Reply:I want one.Lincoln Electric Power MIG 216, Lincoln Electric Precision TIG 225, Hypertherm Powermax 45 Plasma Cutter.Videos of things I make @ www.Retroweld.com" target="_blank">www.Retroweld.com or search "RetroWeld" on YouTube.
Reply:I'll go with what Shortfuse said that the coal from Vinita must be bituminous. It lights much easier than I thought it would. Just a few sheets of newspaper and very little air and it was burning. The new coal I got comes from Wyoming. It's not sharp edged and not big pieces. It's very clean and not shiney. I hope it works good. Some other people picked it up for me but I will find out what kind it is. We will fire it back up again next week. I now need to hit every junk place I know and buy some scrap. I have a main shaft from the steering bos on an old AC tractor I hope to make a few hammers out of. I need a lot of practice first. What do uou call the long tapered punch used for making the hammer eye (the hole for the hammer handle)? Does it need to be made of hardened steel? I need to make one of those.
Reply:Originally Posted by AR. HillbillyI'll go with what Shortfuse said that the coal from Vinita must be bituminous. It lights much easier than I thought it would. Just a few sheets of newspaper and very little air and it was burning. The new coal I got comes from Wyoming. It's not sharp edged and not big pieces. It's very clean and not shiney. I hope it works good. Some other people picked it up for me but I will find out what kind it is. We will fire it back up again next week. I now need to hit every junk place I know and buy some scrap. I have a main shaft from the steering bos on an old AC tractor I hope to make a few hammers out of. I need a lot of practice first. What do uou call the long tapered punch used for making the hammer eye (the hole for the hammer handle)? Does it need to be made of hardened steel? I need to make one of those.
Reply:I made the drift for my handles from 1" mild steel. As mentioned you would loose your temper with the steel that hot anyways. Harder steel wouldn't hurt, but isn't needed as you can always reshape the old one or make a new one if need be.My punch on the other hand to do the 1st hole was H13 tool steel. It's a hot working tool steel that air hardens. It's a pain to forge since it's designed to be used in high heat applications, and the working range is fairly narrow, Too hot and you burn it easily. Too cold and it will not work well and can have issues. You need to keep it up in the yellow/orange range from what I remember. When done heat evenly and sit it aside in still air to harden. As it cools it will harden on it's own. You can then temper the end you pound so that end doesn't shatter.  DO NOT QUENCH these in water. You can cool the punch in water if it isn't glowing, like if you drive it in, then do a quick cool, and do it again. If the punch gets stuck and over heats and starts to glow, let it cool on its own below black. Usually if you get it too hot, it will loose some of it's hardness and you may have to reheat it again and go thru the cooling/tempering process again.S7 is another good hot working tool steel, but it's harder to get the heat treat right and they can shatter and throw shards if not done properly. It's a more advanced tool steel.Of course there's always the "easy" way to do this. Drill your starter hole, then drift. You don't need a mongo hole. Something like 1/2" or 5/8" will do, but bigger cuts down on some of the labor drifting..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:You want coking coal because as the center burns you move the coal inward then replenish the outside.  The coal forms into coke by the time it reaches the fire.  Many people keep their coal wet in a bucket of water to help the coking action and prevent the fire from moving too far  outward.  When you have to leave the fire for awhile jam a 4x4 in the center and turn off the air.  The end of the burning wood will keep things going until you are ready again.  Pull out the wood and turn on the air.   I watched my father tend a fire as described above.  He apprenticed in Austria then worked in an iron works before emigrating in 1927.  When he tended the fire the clinker would form a ring around the center.  All he did was insert a bar in the center of the fire, lift the ring of clinker out, then fling it into the dirt, and move everything inward.  I never managed to do it and had to resort to picking clinker out with the tongs.  His description of his apprenticeship was right out of Charles Dickens with beatings and starvation.  The master was on report with the apprenticeship authority but my father had no one to run to.  He was 14 years old and alone.
Reply:Looks like a nice set up I would love to have a coal forge, but I have zero room for one so I use propane.Need to get back on some forging again. Been a long time.Expert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:Originally Posted by lotechmanYou want coking coal because as the center burns you move the coal inward then replenish the outside.  The coal forms into coke by the time it reaches the fire.  Many people keep their coal wet in a bucket of water to help the coking action and prevent the fire from moving too far  outward.  When you have to leave the fire for awhile jam a 4x4 in the center and turn off the air.  The end of the burning wood will keep things going until you are ready again.  Pull out the wood and turn on the air.   I watched my father tend a fire as described above.  He apprenticed in Austria then worked in an iron works before emigrating in 1927.  When he tended the fire the clinker would form a ring around the center.  All he did was insert a bar in the center of the fire, lift the ring of clinker out, then fling it into the dirt, and move everything inward.  I never managed to do it and had to resort to picking clinker out with the tongs.  His description of his apprenticeship was right out of Charles Dickens with beatings and starvation.  The master was on report with the apprenticeship authority but my father had no one to run to.  He was 14 years old and alone.
Reply:Nice forge. I made one similar to DSW too.  My neighbor is a heating and air guy and I went over and talked him out of a blower with a rheostat. Works like a champ. My biggest problem when I started was making tools to make tools.  So for the past Christmas I asked Santa for multiple tongs which I got. I have made some tongs however they did not work like the ones Santa got me.  Right now I have been making bottle openers and chisels. I am working up to making some steel wheels for my O/A cart. I have to work on making some circles.Lincoln Power Mig 300 with PythonLincoln SquareWave Tig 255 Hypertherm Powermax 45 HH120 w/argon
Reply:Hey y'all My wife made me take her to the city wide yard sales yesterday. I thought/hoped I'd find some hammers or something I could use. No hammers but I did come home with a (I'm guessing) 200 lb mouse hole??? anvil and a repaired post vice. I'll post pics later.
Reply:Great you were able to pick up the Mousehole. Can't wait to see the pictures!
Reply:Sounds like a good score. I'll be waiting on picts as well..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Y'all I didn't get pics yet. The power co is clearing right a ways so tonight we drove around and found a nice white oak log and cut a stump for the anvil. It weighs more than the anvil. We will fire the forge again tomorrow night and I'll get pics of the new anvil then.
Reply:We fired up the forge again tonight and I got pics of the new anvil. The new coal didn't work well at all. It lit easy but that's all I can say. It kept plugging off air flow. It doesn't make coke just ash. It didn't smoke much but was hard to get a good heat. This stuff doesn't work like the first coal we had. I started making a drift out of 7/8" round but all I could get hot was the end. Here's the anvil
Reply:There's a keeper right there!Nice anvil. Expert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:AR, that Mousehole is in great shape.  You got a good buy there.  Any markings, ID, weight stamps (they will be in English hundredweights, not pounds)?What coal were you having problems with?  The Vinita bituminous coal lights easily, burns very nicely, and cokes well.
Reply:Short fuse I can't find a name on the anvil. It looks like righting on the right side towards the top but I can't read it at all. Below that are large numbers 1.   1.   24 but I don't know what they mean. The coal from Vinita works great. I bought 100 pounds from a place in Gentry Arkansas (they said it comes from Wyoming) in small pieces. It doesn't coke it just makes ash and it all works it's way to the bottom and plugs off air flow. It''s hard to get anything hot enough to work. I need to stick with the Vinita coal. I'll call the man you told me about. Thanks.Originally Posted by AR. HillbillyShort fuse I can't find a name on the anvil. It looks like righting on the right side towards the top but I can't read it at all. Below that are large numbers 1.   1.   24 but I don't know what they mean. The coal from Vinita works great. I bought 100 pounds from a place in Gentry Arkansas (they said it comes from Wyoming) in small pieces. It doesn't coke it just makes ash and it all works it's way to the bottom and plugs off air flow. It''s hard to get anything hot enough to work. I need to stick with the Vinita coal. I'll call the man you told me about. Thanks.
Reply:If need be you can mix the coal to help improve the bad stuff until you use it all up..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:AR, DSW has a good point about mixing the coals, but if you didn't pay too much for the 100#, then it may be worth just not using it and move on to some decent coal so that you can learn faster/better with a proper coal meant for smithing.  If you do mix, maybe a small amount of the "bad" stuff like 10-20% by volume.  That way, the better burning coal might make the "lesser" coal burn properly.
Reply:AR,Here are a couple of links (Google) regarding Wyoming coal.  It is predominantly sub-bituminous (meaning a lower grade coal than bituminous but richer than peat), low sulfur, supposedly low ash, and has a BTU value a little below regular bituminous coal.  I can't explain why your coal won't burn easily or has lots of ash if it fits the descriptions of Wyoming coal.  It may be that the Wyoming coal is not mature enough, like bituminous coal, to properly coke for blacksmithing fires.  The hardness of coals is related to the carbon content.  The more carbon in the coal, the more coke should form (sulfur and ash content aside).  Coke is primarily the carbon left behind after all the volatiles in the original coal have burned away...(no more smoke!!)  One of the articles below gives the relative carbon content of the various coals ranging from peat to sub-bituminous to bituminous to anthracite.  Peat has the least carbon and anthracite has the most carbon.http://www.wyomingmining.org/minerals/coal/http://www.wsgs.wyo.gov/Research/Ene...ology-Pg2.aspx
Reply:Thanks for the info Shortfuse. I called the place that sold the Wyoming coal. They are a stove company and use the coal to heat greenhouses. They call it stoker coal. When it burns it barely has a coal smell and burns up fast. It feels soft compared to the Vinita coal.
Reply:Originally Posted by AR. HillbillyThanks for the info Shortfuse. I called the place that sold the Wyoming coal. They are a stove company and use the coal to heat greenhouses. They call it stoker coal. When it burns it barely has a coal smell and burns up fast. It feels soft compared to the Vinita coal.