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Smoked a power/water line on a TIG torch today by not following proper procedures. True or False? Would welcome your input/comments.BackgroundIn preparation for striking first arc with the Miller Dynasty 200DX TIG welder: Filled the Miller Coolmate 4 cooler with 4ea gallons of Miller coolant; connected the Radnor 20 Series (250 Amp, Water Cooled, Hand Amperol) TIG torch to the 200DX; powered ON the welder; turned ON the Argon and set flow rate, set the amperage to 125A in preparation for test runs on 1/8" mild steel coupons and pre/post flow but did not strike arc; powered ON the cooler.......and the coolant leaked immediately from the Red, Braider Rubber, 25' Power Cable (Model 45V03R, P/N 64005565). The leak was essentially a spray under pressure, emmanting at a point just outboard of the black protective cap on the DINSE connector. Note: Red line is Power and H2O Out from the Coolmate 4.Susequently powered OFF the cooler and welder. Disconnected the DINSE Connector 50mm w/ 18in Water Hose (Model DA-1820-L, P/N 64005686), wiped off the 200DX panel of jettisoned coolant (minor volume), and explored extent of damage/problem and root cause.* Note 1: Miler package (welder, cooler, torch) procured *used* from a reputable welder/fabricator and are (was, in the case of the torch lead now) in mint operational/cosmetic condition.* Note 2: prior to any connections today, flushed/inspected (e.g. connections, filter, motor) the cooler, tightened all connections, and the unzipped the protective cable cover (3" x 22') to visually inspect all braided hoses. No visible issues prior to power ON of welder and cooler.* Note 3: elapsed time between powering ON the welder & powering ON the cooler was 8min, but no welding occured.InvestigationIn the 1st photo below, the Bosch scribe points to the pin hole present in the Red braided rubber hose. In the 2nd photo below, the scribe points to the crimped connection for a follow-on question.Self-AssessmentIn adjusting the pre/post flow and setting up the DCEN parameters, believe that cycling the hand ampetrol from low to high amps energized the power cable causing the an cable to overheat and fail. But, no contact between the ground cable and the work piece ever occured. The torch was never within 6ft of the mild steel coupon and grounded work clamp (welding area). No energy was applied to the tungsten. Yes, No?? Thought that power "flow" to the torch did not occur until the electrical loop was completed (ie. contact btw the + and - sides of the circuit).Questions:1. Is the above Self-Assessment technically sound? That is, root cause points to operator error? Note: totally understand the requirement in big bold letters to power ON the cooler before the welder but did not, unfortunately, follow this procedure today. Wondering if there was an in-situ defect in the line; however, the seller claimed to test/weld with the leads just prior to my acceptance of the package. And, I trust him. Perhaps the defect was self-induced today during my connection ops.2. Options to repair? Consulted these threads (http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=61221, http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...t=leaking+hose). Was planning to cut back 12in on the Red hose but do not know if the braided hose can be re-crimped using the original crimp. That is, do not presently have a crimping kit and spare parts. Thinking 'bout ripping some electrical tape around the immediately area to seal the wound. Might be time to place the Radnor in secondary and rip the SSC pedal and CK WorldWide Flex-Loc setup for primary 3. Already completed 50ea 'burpess' as self-punishment for the protocol error. But seriously, what is the tried and trued method to prevent future occurences? Def powering ON the cooler before even thinking about flipping the 200DX switch & illuminate this fact via a posted sign "Power ON Cooler, Welder Dude Before You Do Anything!"Mahalo loa nui in advance for reading/responding to the long post. Wanted to ensure "the facts" were laid out. Attached Images"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:note 3 did nothing to damage the power cable you can order only the power cable but its almost cheaper to just get a new torch If it was me i would order a WP2025RM from weldcraft or the CK Equiv or Weldtecthe CK and Weldtec carry more amps in the same wp20 package the radnor torches are junk in my opinion they are stiff and poorly made the rubber deteriorates in not much time if it was the return hose it would be a easy repair you can get the crimp fitting for the end and the feral and crimp tool and shorten the one you have the power cable is crimped to the fitting then the hose is slid over and the feral crimped on the hose I would bring it up with the seller that said everything was fine which its apparently notMiller Xmt 350Lincoln Ln-25Ahp 200xSmith Gas Mixer AR/HTig is my Kung FuThrowing down dimes and weaving aboutInstagram http://instagram.com/[email protected]
Reply:@ 7A749 - Thank You, as always. Good to know my electrical theory, albeit limited, is sound. Inherent damage in the line. You told me before and will def install a single-pole On/Off switch on the CM4. No switachable power outlet on the 200DX, unfortunately. @ WookieWelding - Check. Appreciate your f/b. Radnor is sub-par. Understand. Planning to replace the RED (Power, Return H2O) line on Radnor and stow as backup, and rip the SSC and Flex-Loc setup as primary. Pedal 1st, Hand Ctrl 2nd.Last edited by ManoKai; 03-08-2013 at 09:54 PM.Reason: Contextual error."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:One thing to note - If you have the high freq on for an extended time without welding it can damage the insulation on the power cable/hose. We had a machine where the foot pedal switch failed closed, which left the high freq going for a while. The hose jacket developed little blisters on it, which eventually burst.
Reply:@ welds4d - ThankYou and noted. Will be aware of HF.@ 7A749 - Ripped a New "RED" line via AirGas. $77 delivered. The journey continues."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Just put the damn tape on it and use it....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:@ zapster - yeah, heard use use that comment before on WW. Planning to do that for the backup plan. All good."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterJust put the damn tape on it and use it....zap!
Reply:Duplicate post....see below.Last edited by ManoKai; 03-19-2013 at 11:19 PM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Update: New RED (power, H2O) line installed on torch & CM4 this weekend and........finally lit off the 200DX today. One sweet rig! Operator-friendly and intuitive. Managed to rip flat and fillet welds on A36 coupons. Torched remained cool throughout the 2+ hrs of welding. Machine set at 130A, with 1.5s pre-flow and 3s post-flow. Attempting to master the "flat" and "fillet" basics on 1/8" MS first, before proceeding to training on SS and Al. Stacking beads w/ 50% overlap in the worx for next session.Really liking the hand-control (Radnor, 250Amp), as the SSC pedal and CK Worldwide FlecLoc are future purchases (read: Father's Day), and use of the TIG Finger (WTT). Slow and steady with torch/filler and CONCENTRATING on reading the puddle and dipping filler consistently . Need to de-millscale the coupons next time, as TIG really shines with clean metal.Will post images of 1st flat/fillet welds soonest. Thanks to all for advice on getting off TDC and assisting in the TIG journey. Hooyah!"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Ok, the 200DX is working awesome. Smooth and focused arc over a range of A , Hz, and EN/EP settings. Starting the achieve CONSISTENTY of bead lay on 1/8" MS coupons. However, a problem in the CM4 has developed and would appreciate a consult.The Proco pump driving the CM4 is leaking at the face seal (ie. adjacent to the snap ring on the aft pump face). The leak, although not measured over time, is a bit more than several:several drops per minute. Been welding with the anomaly, frequently checking the drip volume and topping off the cooler volume periodically. Question: Can the face seal can be replaced? Yes, No? Place to buy the seal? What are potential root cause of the leak in this *used* CM4? Faulty rubber (nitrile, nbutil)? Bad gasket? Note: the TIG Torch is always cool to the touch after many continuous (duty cycle not exceeded) minutes of operation. Really want this cooler to be leak-free without a total rebuild.Def want to replace/repair the gasket:seal prior to future use. Thanks in advance for your assistance "Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:@ 7A749 - Good points. Def leaking from the end cap (snap ring area on pump). Wipe the face/surface.....wait seconds....and we see slow seepage. Tightened all In/Out/Drain fittings. No issues. All lines appear free and clear. At this time, do not see any leakage at front end (radiator subassy).Thanks for the offer on the OEM Procon Pump. Also, replacing the lines with *new* is a solid recommendation. Note, the CM4 is spec'd for a Procon (P/N 177246). PM launched your way. Mahalo."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:If you can see the tiny hole maybe super glue will work? Its pretty tough stuff......Just don't know if the hose lends itself to adhering to that stuff......It doesn't work on everything.....Electric tape will back that up....Good luck...... Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:@7A749 - Your Proco pumps arrived. Thanks a ton for the guidance & awesome products. A Big Kahuna Mahalo to you. Owe you big time. You hit me if I can be of any assistance to you. PM inbound to you. Mahalo loa nui."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:.... and the hits just keep on coming. The used CM4 is disastrous. The leaky Proco pump is repaired. Hooray. The radiator (Cu tubing coiled assembly, manufactured by Peerless of America, P/N 4408, and sold directly to Miller) is FUBAR'd. The cool has multiple leaks in the outer coils. Removed the coil assembly, air jetted the corrosive coolant debris from the assy, removed/cleaned the salvageable Al fins attached to the outer coil, sanded/cleaned and JB welded the outer most tube in two locations, pressure tested, reinstalled the assy in the CM4, powered ON, and.........now there are leaks in the 2nd most outer Cu tubes. Not interested in repairing the assym any more, as the inner layers also look rough and subsequent attempts to repair will most likely result in addl leaks. Not to mention that access to the 2nd most outer layer of Cu is next to impossible. Nightmare.Conjecturing that the original owner did not run the proper coolant in the CM4. Just a guess. Was told only that a minor leak was present in the pump. Whatever.Path Forward: a) buy a replacement Cu radiator assym from Miller for $295, b) buy a new CM4 for ~ $780, c) source/buy a new/used CM3 for TBD $, or d) drink 3ea Kona Longboard beers and formulate an alternate plan of attack. Option d) is already in progress. Really want to stay in the H2O TIG Torch realm.If anyone is looking to part w/ a CM4 (non-leaking) radiator, please PM me. Will send money tonight in exchange for the assy.Mahalo."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by ManoKai.... and the hits just keep on coming. The used CM4 is disastrous. The leaky Proco pump is repaired. Hooray. The radiator (Cu tubing coiled assembly, manufactured by Peerless of America, P/N 4408, and sold directly to Miller) is FUBAR'd. The cool has multiple leaks in the outer coils. Removed the coil assembly, air jetted the corrosive coolant debris from the assy, removed/cleaned the salvageable Al fins attached to the outer coil, sanded/cleaned and JB welded the outer most tube in two locations, pressure tested, reinstalled the assy in the CM4, powered ON, and.........now there are leaks in the 2nd most outer Cu tubes. Not interested in repairing the assym any more, as the inner layers also look rough and subsequent attempts to repair will most likely result in addl leaks. Not to mention that access to the 2nd most outer layer of Cu is next to impossible. Nightmare.Conjecturing that the original owner did not run the proper coolant in the CM4. Just a guess. Was told only that a minor leak was present in the pump. Whatever.Path Forward: a) buy a replacement Cu radiator assym from Miller for $295, b) buy a new CM4 for ~ $780, c) source/buy a new/used CM3 for TBD $, or d) drink 3ea Kona Longboard beers and formulate an alternate plan of attack. Option d) is already in progress. Really want to stay in the H2O TIG Torch realm.If anyone is looking to part w/ a CM4 (non-leaking) radiator, please PM me. Will send money tonight in exchange for the assy.Mahalo.
Reply:@ WookieWelding - fantastic idea. Thx.@ 7A749 - You the man! Will advise soonest bro. Tak'n in the rig after the IWDC Event in NC this Sat. Stoked. Your buddy's Bernard option is dakine! Mahalo."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:@ 7A749 - will do exactly just that. Local radiator shop ops. Mahalo loa nui."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:@ 7A749 - A local radiator wizard repaired the Cu tubing (radiator) for a dakine $90. He found n fixed (soldered) 4 additional leaks in the inner Cu spiral. Pressure test sat. We talked about the design. Flawed. The thin wall Al "fins" (heat sinks) encasing the spiral are subjected to motion/wear/failure, due to motor induced vibrations, on the Cu tubing. Sharp points of contact to thin-walled Cu tubing. He's seen this happn before on other smaller radiators. In fact, he stated that even a new and well maintained unit may see this drama.The solution. Placed cut rubber tubing between the Al interstices to reduce/control vibration and mitigate Al-to-Cu tubing motions. And, keep in mind, the CM4 does have a rubberized belly-band for the radiator assembly. But, we're taking about controlling localized motions.Enroute to score the repaired radiator and return the CM4 to DEFCON 5. Nominal operating condition. Your *new* Proco pump is installed and the unit is ready to rock! Will be sure to jam an image of the final assembly. Mahalo again for the pumps.Shaka!"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:The CM4 is running like a champ. Waaaay quiter & No Leaks. Key Largo brah! Pract'n TIG on some 1/8" Al w/ new "5356" 3/32 filler. AwRyte!"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:ShoNuff! May be in The Region this summer. PM launched."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:BlackHawk Down. Two weeks ago while TIG'n, noticed sounds a la a rock tumbler and thrashing of metal coming from the CoolMate 4. Shut her down, checked fluid down, and lit her off again. Sounds went away. TIG'd away for the next couple of hours with no abnormal sounds. Haven't powered up the CM4 in 10 days.Fast forward to today. Powered ON the CM4 and noticed LOUD & SCARY sounds emanating from within. Powered OFF, checked for leaks....there were none....and powered ON again. Even topped off the tank with a gallon of the Miller coolant. The sounds of satan are still present. WTF, over? Perhaps the pump and/or electrical motor bearings are smoked? No idea.Still need to determine if flow is present from unit to TIG torch and back. No real alternative than to tear her down and go CSI on it. There may be metal shavings in the flow lines. Missing anything else?Can't catch a break with this cooler. If the motor's bad, then we will have a meeting of the minds between the CM4 and my 300WM at the range. The long rifle will prevail.Last edited by ManoKai; 09-03-2013 at 04:12 PM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:@ 7A749 - total rookie move on my part. Disconnected the pump from the motor shaft and ran the motor. Smooth and quiet. Then the illumination moment occurred. Re-seated the Proco to the motor, and .... tightened the hell out of the split band affixing the motor boss to the pump casing. Powered ON and CM4 returned to normal operation. Voila!Really appreciate your quick response feedback Steve. Today's been a grind on several fronts.Last edited by ManoKai; 09-03-2013 at 07:02 PM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Kai, glad to see you got it worked out again. Not much else to fail in that unit.If the meeting with the 300 WinMag ever occurs, be sure to post plenty before and after pics.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:@ Drf255 - ShoNuff. The 208gr AMAX bullet @ 2930fps MV would incinerate the CM4 with 1,600 ft-lbs of energy at 800yds. The added mass effect of the coolant would make for a fun show. You and Steve would be first-in on the imagery. Ha!Last edited by ManoKai; 09-04-2013 at 06:01 AM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-GyorgyiThe Gig is Up:Lit up the CM4 tonight for the first time in 2 months and........nuts n bolts (read: rock tumbler) sounds from the electric motor. Unseated the Proco and ran the unit. The same sound! Re-seated the Proco and again ran the unit. The same sound! The problem is not with the water pump. Closed-loop all the way. Not a drop of water leaking from the CM4. Plenty of internal fluid. In fact, TIG'd just fine but the sound from the motor about made my head explode.The electric motor is probably smoked. Bearings. What, you say just replace the motor? Easy day? Well, F' that. Gun'a smart-source a used CoolMate 3. The CM4 package is dead to me. The unit's unswitchable power input (ie. plug and unplug) is annoying. If anyone is looking to part with a fully-functional, used, CM3 please PM me.300WM handloads & long rifle on hot standby. Looking forward to the pre-shoot & post-shoot images on the CM4. Never liked this cooler spawn'd from the devil. Bad karma. With a fresh blanket of snow on the ground, the show should be spectacular. Note: Proco pump will be removed before unit's "retirement".AMOK!Last edited by ManoKai; 12-08-2013 at 06:53 PM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Don't toss it Kai. I'm sure someone here would take it off your hands for a sum and fix it.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Massive external leakage from the prior-repaired Cu radiator on the CM4. Think arterial spurting across the front grill. Been TIG'n a lot lately and she's been behaving. No rock sounds and the pump has been smoooth. But earlier this morning while hustle'n some projects, she ejected a pool of coolant that ran throughout the shop for probably a minute before noticing. Shut down the cooler, cleaned up, and contemplated options as the Triumph song "Lay it on the Line" echoed in my mind. Switching to air-cooled TIG options on the "200DX" and "304 CC/CV", until a cooler is integrated.Appreciate any leads on known pre-owned CM3s for sale.Last edited by ManoKai; 03-10-2015 at 06:47 AM.Reason: Spelling"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:I would do this to it.....Then, this....Expert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:Seriously, HGR had some rebranded CM 3s for sale cheap awhile back. Their shipping is expensive, but I think as long as you got a good one, it would still be cheaper than a used one locally.I wish I had one for you bro. Expert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:Sourced a nice & clean preowned Binzel CM3 for $300. Gun'a run her and check it out next week. Time to (again) removed, inspect, and self silver solder the CM4's radiator.Mahalo to DynaRestoSteve for the HGR lead."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Alas! The CM4 was shipped today to a commercial buyer in IN. Managed to acquire at no cost an immaculate, new OEM copper radiator with the foam banding attached. BLUE rulez!Replaced all hoses with 200psi EPDM rubber, installed new SS band clamps. Cleaned interior assemblies and exterior shell with mineral spirits and acetone. She was so smooth and quiet during the test runs in addition to now being 100% operational. Vast improvement from initial receipt back in early '13."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:You get all the fun jobs.......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home. |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:04:31