My first functional weld!

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Well it aint pretty but it's gonna hold.I had cracked the front lower crossbar on my small 2k lb 5x8 utility trailer while traveling the country last year.  Did a field repair adding 1/4" backer and bolting them together with grade 8 3/8" bolts.But I wanted to weld the crack to keep it from propagating and make the fix permanent.I want to reinforce the tongue as well since it is a bolt on affair but going to wait until I have more practice.  This was after about 8 minutes worth of practice.   Switching to Lincoln fluxcore wire made a big difference.compared to the stuff that came with my HF 180.Anyway, seems to match the rest of.the welds on the trailer.
Reply:Oh dear lord.... you will now be thrown to the wolves for even mentioning trailer and HF welder in the same thread!!!!Term limits...... 1 in office...... 1 in jail.Lincoln WeldPak 175 HD w/ gasWelding PHD...... (Pile Higher and Deeper)Pen and paperHalf-azzed brain
Reply:where's the popcorn?NO! just NO!There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:That's not functional. Time to busy out the grinder. Why is there only a tiny bit of weld holding that angle iron up?why weld the washer?time to use your head
Reply:Originally Posted by IdafrogOh dear lord.... you will now be thrown to the wolves for even mentioning trailer and HF welder in the same thread!!!!
Reply:I believe Danny had trademarked the first sentence...... Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:This was just the first weld.  There's a 1/4" thick bar behind that that you cant see that runs almost the width of the trailer, and 2nd 1/4" bar that runs just past those bolts.  The weld that touches the washer was a mistake and is mostly non functional.  I was not welding the vertical angle iron, but a vertical crack in the horizontal beam 1/8" outside the orig weld of the vertical piece.
Reply:Depends on the function.This welds function is to break.Ergo, functional.
Reply:Here's the break, after the field repair.
Reply:So you ground it out then welded it up, or just squirted metal on top of the crack so you can't see it any longer?.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Hey back up and give us some context for your cracked field repair - I'd like to see what it looks like.And btw...new welding machine with a new guy running it on a trailer is grounds for a "peaceful protest" Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWSo you ground it out then welded it up, or just squirted metal on top of the crack so you can't see it any longer?
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveHey back up and give us some context for your cracked field repair - I'd like to see what it looks like.And btw...new welding machine with a new guy running it on a trailer is grounds for a "peaceful protest"
Reply:Originally Posted by Fnord5Hey now, "new guy" is kind of harsh.  He had 8 minutes of practice!
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWSo you ground it out then welded it up, or just squirted metal on top of the crack so you can't see it any longer?
Reply:how did it crack in the first place? overloaded, big bump , accident?Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:Originally Posted by roadkillbobbhow did it crack in the first place? overloaded, big bump , accident?
Reply:Loving the criticism by the way.  Lets me know you guys are honest.
Reply:If that's a down hill weld, don't weld like that. Vertical welds should be welded uphill, for strength and good penetration. This requires a lot of practice.Rich
Reply:Originally Posted by bugwubberPretty much.  Guess I could get in there deeper and weld the crack to the bar that is now behind it. I felt the horizontal welds on the back side (and bolts of course) were more important in terms of taking the load off the cracked area.  There's an additional 1/2" of steel behind that crack now because I didn't feel the original 1/8" angle was sufficient in the first place.
Reply:Originally Posted by steelsurgeonIf that's a down hill weld, don't weld like that. Vertical welds should be welded uphill, for strength and good penetration. This requires a lot of practice.Rich
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveFor future repairs, all cracks have to be ground deep enough and wide enough to weld all the way to the bottom of the crack.In general, but especially for small migs, amps does not get you penetration, only grinding it out will do that.A surface weld over a crack is guaranteed to crack again.
Reply:The original weld also looks to be done downhill, but perhaps the whole piece was flipped somehow, and it was welded in the flat position. When a weld cracks at the toe of the bead (where the bead meets the base metal), like the pre-repaired crack is,that is the Heat Affected Zone. Those areas tend to be very brittle.Rich
Reply:Originally Posted by bugwubberHell, guess I shoulda talked to you guys before I lit it up ;-)I think I was more concerned about not making it worse by cutting into it (and damaging the bar behind it).  I have to get out of that mindset!
Reply:Some examples of metal prepDave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.Originally Posted by steelsurgeonThe original weld also looks to be done downhill, but perhaps the whole piece was flipped somehow, and it was welded in the flat position. When a weld cracks at the toe of the bead (where the bead meets the base metal), like the pre-repaired crack is,that is the Heat Affected Zone. Those areas tend to be very brittle.Rich
Reply:If you want to keep that from breaking again run 2 diagonal braces from the top center of the upper rail to the bottom outer corner to carry that better. They can be angle or flat bar. Adding tubing to an angle iron frame is not for the inexperienced if you want it to be good.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:how about you stop welding on trailers until you've got enough experience to know what you're doing and are sure to get a good weld. find someone to give you a good couple of lessons and practice practice practice. by that point you'll realize that your 110v welder is well, crap. and you'll move up to something more suited for the job. Not that 110v welders don't have their place. It's just not on anything that goes down public roads as a structural weld.you're mind set of not wanting to damage the metal behind the crack by grinding it out makes on sense to me. you're going to fill it in with weld anyway, so what damage would there be? beside the fact that a 110v welder isn't going to get sufficient enough penetration on a 1/4 piece of metal to get a proper bond. but if you refer back to my original paragraph you'll know the tool wasn't right for the job to begin with.As you've already stated you'd never buy that type of trailer again. GOOD! like you said, they are crap. It's a bunch of cold welds holding the lightest possible frame together to barely be able to withstand the load printed on the label. Next time do some research and buy a quality trailer to eliminate the problem before it happens. There is a wealth of knowledge on this site that will give you a ton of insight into what you've done wrong, how to improve, and why welding on things that go on public roads is so frowned upon for beginner and novice welders.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:It's the 220v HF pos.But regardless, no welding on trailers!!
Reply:Good morning, Bug.Lots of good advice here, so read, read, read, then practice, practice, practice. Unfortunately, you picked the wrong first project - a trailer. We are all concerned about what is on the road with us and our families, so trailer projects get lots of attention.I respect that you want to fix the trailer correctly AND I appreciate that you have thick enough skin to accept the "help". Too many times, a new guy posts like this, then the rocks and arrows start flying and we never hear from him again. That's what I worry about - he's still on the road, just ignoring all cautions and potential advice to do the job right.We were all the new guy once. I've been learning for more than 8 years and still learned from this post. And we have all made rookie mistakes so do not give up. These guys are giving you good advice. Get lots of hood time first, then come back and grind out that weld so you can do it properly. Show us that you are trainable and you will have some good friends that will help you as you continue to learn about welding.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:Yeah definitely agree with the comments here.  No beginner should ever take on structural welds on moving things.  My field repair has over 3000 hard miles on it and is in my opinion, the strongest part of the trailer.  This weld was on a section that is no longer taking much stress and will stay that way permanently. Anyway, my plan is to not do any additional welds on the trailer until I can actually weld, but to make the trailer safe, I'll be strengthening the second crossbar with bolt-ons. Now I move on to my next project,  a rocket launcher for the trailer.
Reply:Yea...People tend to really take for granted the perils of driving on public roads. As dangerous as trailers are....Same can be said for securing loads properly in pickup trucks. The below accident happened here a couple of years ago. The driver of the truck was charged with negligent manslaughter. He probably mortgaged his house to hire a lawyer to defend himself. And he also has to live with the fact that his falling ladder caused the death of 3 people. -----------------A St. Tammany Parish grand jury Wednesday cleared a St. Bernard Parish firefighter of criminal wrongdoing in an Oct. 5 accident near Mandville which claimed three lives.Salvadore Cetrone, 44, had been booked with three counts of negligent homicide for the Interstate 12 accident near the Louisiana 1088 overpass which killed three women from Picayune, Miss.The grand jury in Covington returned a "no true bill," indicating it found insufficient evidence to warrant criminal charges against Cetrone.Cetrone, who lives near Slidell, was driving eastbound on the interstate around 3 p.m. when an aluminum ladder fell off the back of his pickup truck, according to State Police. An eastbound 18-wheeler swerved to avoid the ladder and crossed the interstate median, slamming head-on into a Lexus and clipping two other westbound vehicles, police said.Three women in the Lexus -- Anita Sheffield, 55, and her two adult daughters, Betsy Sheffield, 27, and Karen Sheffield, 23 -- were killed in the accident, police said.Cetrone maintained that he had secured the ladder with rubber straps which broke loose while he was driving on the interstate.
Reply:Originally Posted by Tim9Yea...People tend to really take for granted the perils of driving on public roads. As dangerous as trailers are....Same can be said for securing loads properly in pickup trucks. The below accident happened here a couple of years ago. The driver of the truck was charged with negligent manslaughter. He probably mortgaged his house to hire a lawyer to defend himself. And he also has to live with the fact that his falling ladder caused the death of 3 people. -----------------A St. Tammany Parish grand jury Wednesday cleared a St. Bernard Parish firefighter of criminal wrongdoing in an Oct. 5 accident near Mandville which claimed three lives.Salvadore Cetrone, 44, had been booked with three counts of negligent homicide for the Interstate 12 accident near the Louisiana 1088 overpass which killed three women from Picayune, Miss.The grand jury in Covington returned a "no true bill," indicating it found insufficient evidence to warrant criminal charges against Cetrone.Cetrone, who lives near Slidell, was driving eastbound on the interstate around 3 p.m. when an aluminum ladder fell off the back of his pickup truck, according to State Police. An eastbound 18-wheeler swerved to avoid the ladder and crossed the interstate median, slamming head-on into a Lexus and clipping two other westbound vehicles, police said.Three women in the Lexus -- Anita Sheffield, 55, and her two adult daughters, Betsy Sheffield, 27, and Karen Sheffield, 23 -- were killed in the accident, police said.Cetrone maintained that he had secured the ladder with rubber straps which broke loose while he was driving on the interstate.
Reply:Originally Posted by Tim9Cetrone maintained that he had secured the ladder with rubber straps which broke loose while he was driving on the interstate.[/I]
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWHence why I never trust bungee cords to secure any load except maybe a tarp. Ratchet straps are my preferred method, pull straps my 2nd choice for lighter objects.Honestly on a scale of 1 to 10, I'd rate this repair relatively low on the danger scale based on what has been described. I think the low level flame factor shows others believe this as well. I don't see the trailer failing catastrophically should the weld fail. I'd be more concerned if the crack was on the long rails vs up front. Having said that, there's certainly plenty the OP can learn from this repair. Good prep, proper technique, more powerful better suited machine are all lessons to take away from this.Bug if you want, post up some picts of your welds along with machine used, settings, material thickness wire size and so on, and we'll be happy to help you learn and improve your skills.
Reply:Originally Posted by bugwubberNow I move on to my next project,  a rocket launcher for the trailer.
Reply:Come on now.... it's not always the weld that has to be good. Some times the thing you welded needs to work....
Reply:Bulletproof Horsehoe Crab?  Nightmare fuel there...
Reply:Originally Posted by bugwubberYeah definitely agree with the comments here.   Now I move on to my next project,  a rocket launcher for the trailer.
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauHow much distance do you think you will be able to launch the trailer, with the rockets on it? How many rockets are you going to attach to the trailer for the launch attempt?
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauHow much distance do you think you will be able to launch the trailer, with the rockets on it? How many rockets are you going to attach to the trailer for the launch attempt?
Reply:I will say like you I have limited experience welding.However I will say HF welders are well junk...In your first pic you can see the top of the crack that you did not weld over, in the next pic it makes it clear that it is the crack that you were talking about.Like said you need to grind out the crack.  Even to drill a small hole at the ends of the crack along with grinding it out.  The holes at the end will help keep it from spreading, grinding will again when welding make it one piece of metal again.  Just need the "right" machine and good technique. Keep working at it.Eastwood 135 mig welderHobart Stickmate LX 235 AC / 160 DCHobart EX Tig 165