insight please :) which welder to use

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Ok. So tomorrow I want to dial in one of my welders for my project.  Im making a cross member for my truck that will hold leaf spring brackets and also rear brackets welded to the frame. For my cross member i have a 2x4- 3/16" tube and ill be welding 1/4" plat to it for the brackets.  My frame is only about an 1/8" thick though .. hmm. My question is mostly which welder of mine to use. I have two: an older Lincoln sp 125 plus with flux core and an even older craftsman 230 infinite amp arc welder. The sp 125 plus seems to burn into 1/4" just fine if i go slow. This is what i had planned on using before a welder at a fab shop told me it wasn't strong enough.  It requires a 25 amp circuit and welds 100 amps at a 30% duty cycle. I like the way it welds but my main concern is the strength of my welds. I dont my truck falling apart on me. Im gonna be taking it on and off road frequently so im looking for stability and of course safety. Stick welding is just more difficult for me to get good looking beads. Well i  thought someone here might have some good advice for me. I dont mind welding slow with breaks in between welds but i do have a problem with unsafe building.  Thanks for any insight. Hope all are well! BlessingsJonathan
Reply:Sorry, but I would not attempt to make anything that could cause you or others injury if it breaks.  If you must do it yourself, I'd trust a 7018 stick weld over MIG anyday.  Mig is notorious for decent looking beads with little penetration.  With clean metal and 7018 you're gonna get a strong weld if you practice and can lay it down.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Some one pass me the popcorn. This is going to get interesting. Originally Posted by soulwelderHey all, Well I'm a bit new to all this and I am currently in the process of learning to fabricate at home.
Reply:What I would do if I were you:Measure the cross member piece to be fitted into the truck and then measure for plates at both ends to fit the frame. Take the cross member and plate to a certified welder and have him weld the plates to the ends of the new cross member. Take the cross member home and bolt it to the frame on both sides with a minimum of 6 1/2" grade 8 bolts in each frame rail.
Reply:I second that.  Nothing wrong with tacking stuff together and bringing it to a qualified welder.Saves you a lot of cash doing all the fitting and grunt work.Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Ok, as I am betting you will ignore the "YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO DO THIS" in big flashing neon lights, rules are.   Never weld to a vehicle frame.  They are made of special high tensile steels and welding to then damages the strength and ductility.  U need to bolt whatever u r building to the frame.   You need a 175 amp+ mig to do 1/4 " plate.     7018AC is your best choice for the stick welder.  At least post pics of some practice beads and fillets ran with 7018 before u start the project.   Also pics and more detail about the vehicle and usage should also be includedTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Ok. Thank you for everyones honesty. I understand the concern. So what ill do is weld some stuff in different positions  and then post pictures for criticism.  I am not afraid of being told my welding is not good enough. At the same time i feel like i have the ability.  I have taken a welding class and i trust my skill to some degree. I feel like i can tell when good penetration has taken place and my beads seem to look good. I like the idea of bolting the members to the frame.  One question .... why would all my existing  suspension members be welded to the frame if its not a good idea? They look like mig welds from the factory.  Btw its a 1990 isuzu Trooper and not a Jeep which i believe uses a type of spring steel.  So would bolting plus some small welds be in order? Well .. let me do some welds and post them. If i dont make the cake then ill start talking to some shops. Thanks! Wish me luck. I really want to do fabrication.  I love itJonathan
Reply:The welding to frames deal is sort of an old time deal. Done RIGHT it is fine really to weld on frames but even still I wouldn't recommend it to just anyone.Post up some welding pictures! We like pictures! Just be prepared for some hassling. It is best to not take offense to any hassling but to try and learn from it. Some people are more harsh than others but still just try and learn from it.
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTThe welding to frames deal is sort of an old time deal. Done RIGHT it is fine really to weld on frames but even still I wouldn't recommend it to just anyone.Post up some welding pictures! We like pictures! Just be prepared for some hassling. It is best to not take offense to any hassling but to try and learn from it. Some people are more harsh than others but still just try and learn from it.
Reply:Ok. I had a busy day yesterday and didnt get much welding time in I did practice some overhead welding with the wire welder. Its gotta be the most challenging so far. If i keep my heat down a bit it does well. My vertical welds i think i have down. I cant imagine more power will be needed for the frame welds as it seems too hot for 1/8" on a high setting.  The stick seems perfect for the 1/4". I ended up using 6013 on the 1/4 because my 7011's are old and they seem like too much stick for what in doing. The 6013 burn nice and hot too. Correct me if im wrong. I worked on some designs where bolting and minimal welds on the frame are possible.  Maybe a bit on the overkill side as far as structural strength goes.  I had good success with the stick.  I forgot how much i like it! Good nice looking beads as well....My thoughts are that ill make the cross member and post pics of my welds. If you all disagree then ill take it to a "pro". Any thoughts? Ypur direction is very helpful!  Thanks...
Reply:So im planning on working on my skills some more this weekend.  Id really like to do this build myself as money is VERY limited right now and also its just a goal i have. Im hoping someone here is in favor of my goal and is willing to guide me. Im going to post pictures as soon as i can upload everything on my computer which is a huge time consumer for me whos not so savvy  If there are supporters of enthusiasts here id just like a little direction on what to look for im my welds as im welding.  Im looking for good penetration but not too much of course as there's concern of burning too deep and weekening the object.  Im wondering about amp settings and weld durations.  It seems ive got a good 25 amps of play where my welds dont seem too much different. I want to know what my peice should look like after welding.  I figure that when my peice gets real red and has starts to warp then im too hot. Too cold and my beads dont seem to set well and penetration is limited.  This of course is all i can tell by visual. Any other tips you would give or am i just gonna have to feel it out? Thanks all. Again , taking it somewhere else is going to be my last resort and id love to see a good product come from help from guys like you and a lot of determination.  After all, isnt that what skilled trade/ craftsmanship is all about?  Blessings!Jonathan
Reply:Post up good clear detailed picts along with material thickness and settings and we can go from there. Start with basic beads in the flat position. If you can pull those off well, then lets see beads in horizontal, vertical and overhead as well.Most of the answers to the questions you are asking comes from practice and understanding what is going on. It's not something someone can just spoon feed you and you are ready to go in an afternoon. 1st lets see what you can produce. From dealing with a ton of students, I'm not holding my breath you will have the skills at this point to pull this off. Your small mig is way under powered for structural components.  On anything over maybe 14 ga your welds are most likely cold even if they look pretty. Your stick machine is really not the best choice either, but lets see what you can produce.It's pointless to go into much of this until we can see what you can do. There's no point in going into how to test and prove welds if you can't pass a basic visual inspection 1st..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by soulwelderOk. So tomorrow I want to dial in one of my welders for my project.  Im making a cross member for my truck that will hold leaf spring brackets and also rear brackets welded to the frame. For my cross member i have a 2x4- 3/16" tube and ill be welding 1/4" plat to it for the brackets.  My frame is only about an 1/8" thick though .. hmm. My question is mostly which welder of mine to use. I have two: an older Lincoln sp 125 plus with flux core and an even older craftsman 230 infinite amp arc welder. The sp 125 plus seems to burn into 1/4" just fine if i go slow. This is what i had planned on using before a welder at a fab shop told me it wasn't strong enough.  It requires a 25 amp circuit and welds 100 amps at a 30% duty cycle. I like the way it welds but my main concern is the strength of my welds. I dont my truck falling apart on me. Im gonna be taking it on and off road frequently so im looking for stability and of course safety. Stick welding is just more difficult for me to get good looking beads. Well i  thought someone here might have some good advice for me. I dont mind welding slow with breaks in between welds but i do have a problem with unsafe building.  Thanks for any insight. Hope all are well! BlessingsJonathan
Reply:Sounds good. Ill show what i can do. If you could id like to know your opinion on frame welding and bolting.  Im trying to find ways to make it an almost completely bolt on deal. First question is: Do you have any ideas on the best way to bolt to a boxed in frame? Its not a channel but totally enclosed.  For tje other question : Ive heard about not welding vertically into the frame and i asked a friend whos done a lot of these conversions and he said this doesn't really apply to us isuzu guys. ??? He said a lot newer vehicles use a type of spring steel for the frame. I not sure he knows what hes talking about. So my question is.... why are there tone of vertical welds on my frame from the factory? These isuzu trucks hold up betyer tjan any Jeep ive seen and every suspension member is welded all the way around. All though it makes sense to me and i am still not planning to weld across the rail, im still curious as to why what they have done work well. Is tensile strength the factor here or just proper welding.  Thanks!  Ill get my pics up soon. I promise
Reply:2 car batteries, jumper cables and hardware store 6011..........Thats how I am doing my truck body.....Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."