Mobile Welding Trailer w/crane

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Has anyone mounted a crane on their welding trailer? I've got a Venturo 6'/10'/14' 2200lbs capacity crane with power rotation. I was going to put it on my flatbed but that truck is currently down and I'm building a trailer for mobile welding. Really just going after general repair and such. I get mostly equipment repairs and want to keep it away from the shop if I can help it. I just bought a Bobcat 225 and serviced it. Now it's time for a trailer build. I have a stripped frame with axle from a '76 Wilderness 5th wheel. It has a single 5k axle. What I like about it is it has a 4" channel frame and the two leg landing gear. I'm wondering if I mount the crane up front on a pedestal built into the landing gear bulkhead if the landing gear would be strong enough to serve as an outrigger. The manual only calls for a drop down style support. It's not really an actual outrigger I guess. My other worry is tongue weight. I would like to have the welder behind the landing gear as well with the control panel on the driver's side. The battery(s) and tanks on the front side of the bulkhead. I will build this trailer as a bumper pull. I have two bed side boxes and a couple trailer boxes for storage. I need space on the trailer to transport bulk items and materials. I would also like to incorporate a material rack of sorts but I don't like the possibility of interference with the cranes full range of motion. It will be a balancing act in need of a good floor plan. I need to be able to pull this trailer with an suv if I have to. Should be doable.Any pics out there of a similar build?
Reply:IMHO,, the crane, welder, trailer and a few tools are over the rating of the axle,,You need two 5K axles,, as a minimum,, then,, Hmmmmmmmmm,, it is too heavy for the SUV to pull it,,
Reply:A crane on a trailer is not worthless, but nearly so. You need more ballast. A 4” channel frame and single axle spell disaster with a crane on it. To utilize that crane fully you would need over a ton of available payload, that is after tool boxes, welder and leads. That puts the truck you are looking for clearly in the f500 and up arena. Then there is the training and test compliance docs that you will likely need if you ever have a problem on a job site. Oh and at least double your liability policy rates as well. Cranes are cool, but are a super huge pain to use legitimately.
Reply:Originally Posted by walkerA crane on a trailer is not worthless, but nearly so. You need more ballast. A 4” channel frame and single axle spell disaster with a crane on it. To utilize that crane fully you would need over a ton of available payload, that is after tool boxes, welder and leads. That puts the truck you are looking for clearly in the f500 and up arena. Then there is the training and test compliance docs that you will likely need if you ever have a problem on a job site. Oh and at least double your liability policy rates as well. Cranes are cool, but are a super huge pain to use legitimately.
Reply:A stripped travel trailer frame is very weak because the living area box contributes a lot of stiffness.Just so you know.
Reply:Some food for thought for sure. First, let's consider that my qualifications and training are up to par. I have received formal training in overhead cranes, heavy wreckers, and rigging. Ive hauled heavy steel with B trains and sleds. Operated overhead cranes, mobiles and wreckers. A 2200lbs max cap service crane is a tinker toy for me. However I always respect equipment and use safe working practices. I will also properly balance the load out on this trailer. It will not be overloaded. My SUV can tow a max of 6000lbs. The welder is 600+/-, crane is 545, tool boxes are aluminum, I estimate no more than 200lbs in tools as I like to pick light. Then the oxy and fuel tanks. Max loaded should be around 2k. Trailer will be about 5x8-10. I think. So let's say 3k tare weight on a 5k axle. That leaves me plenty for material or whatever. As for being heavy enough for the crane, that won't be a problem. The crane sub frame will be built according to specs in the manual. No ballast is required when the proper rigging is deployed. Which in this case, the manual calls for a drop leg on the outboard side of the crane. No extended outrigger required. I'm trying to figure if the landing gear leg is up to snuff. The trailer is going to be cut down for the channel, axle, and landing gear. A new trailer will be built for the purpose. I would have elaborated in my first post but I didnt realize this forum was so technically qualified. Im hoping to make this a build thread if I can get my pics up. And if I have the time to keep it up. I've always wanted to share a build. I've been planning a mobile setup for years now. My truck is out of service needing a head gasket and cab swap. So a trailer is my best option. I have been very sick for about 3 years and am behind on everything. Trying to get back going now that I'm "on the mend" so to say.Last edited by liberty_metal_worx; 04-16-2021 at 10:11 AM.
Reply:I work with several companies that have trailer mounted log grapples. The crane is usually mounted up front of the bed and has pedestal base with extendable outriggers. Many are 5 th wheel mount. Every one I've seen has been dual axle..Best of luckAirco 250 ac/dc Heliwelder Square waveMiller Synchrowave 180 sdMiller Econo Twin HFLincoln 210 MPDayton 225 ac/dcVictor torchesSnap-On YA-212Lotos Cut60D
Reply:Those are very cool. The purpose of the tandem axle is for hauling capacity. The axles are not relied upon for crane capacity as the suspension and air filled tires can cause a stability issue. My trailer having a single axle is a non issue.
Reply:I would be more concerned about keeping the trailer in place. A tandem axle with the brakes set will be much more stabile than a single axle in that aspect.
Reply:How do you set electric brakes?
Reply:Originally Posted by liberty_metal_worxHow do you set electric brakes?
Reply:It was sort of a rhetorical question. It is not common practice to"set" electric brakes. We use wheel chocks.
Reply:I wouldn't completely trust wheel chocks either. Even on the smaller bucket trucks using a Mico lock to set the front brakes was common. Adding a set of trailer tounge jacks opposite the " outriggers" would go a long ways.
Reply:I don't really plan to use wheel chocks except when on an incline. The landing gear should serve that purpose. Powering the electric brakes for the duration of a job will eat up my juice for the crane. I plan to weld on swivel receivers for the several pin on screw jacks I have laying around. This will have the trailer supported on 4 corners if I need it. In all reality it would be rare to use the crane at full capacity as it will only lift 2200lbs at 2 1/2 feet from the swivel center. It's real world working range is around 750-1000 lbs. At 14' boom length plus the base height it should make easier work of installing my signs. Sent from my moto e6 using Tapatalk
Reply:Well I wouldn’t do it on a trailer without extendable outriggers on all four corners I really think you are setting yourself up for a surprise when you least expect it to much flex not enough counterweight and pivoting on one axle with single tires
Reply:I would consider one on my welding trailer but would want a good set of outriggers as part of the package.  My trailer weighs around 6,000 lbs with most of that forward of the axles, so I'd locate a crane on the back end of the trailer.I'd want to raise the trailer slightly so that the outriggers were carrying the load and not the axles.Last edited by scsmith42; 04-17-2021 at 02:15 PM.Miller Trailblazer Pro 350DMiller Suitcase MIGMiller Spectrum 2050Miller Syncrowave 250DXLincoln 210MP
Reply:Originally Posted by scsmith42I would consider one on my welding trailer but would want a good set of outriggers as part of the package.  My trailer weighs around 6,000 lbs with most of that forward of the axles, so I'd locate a crane on the back end of the trailer.I'd want to raise the trailer slightly so that the outriggers were carrying the load and not the axles.
Reply:Well, it looks like you’ve done it all, and don’t need any advice from guys that are currently licensed, bonded, and insured to do it.
Reply:Originally Posted by walkerWell, it looks like you’ve done it all, and don’t need any advice from guys that are currently licensed, bonded, and insured to do it.
Reply:Originally Posted by liberty_metal_worxDo you have a pic of your trailer?Sent from my moto e6 using Tapatalk
Reply:Okay I had a tandem axle welding trailer out of necessity because of cash flow but I will tell you a few things I learned the hard way 1. Your going to overload the trailer your gonna throw a little bit more stuff on all the time and your gonna have bits and pieces and before long your overloaded .2. Your gonna run out of space before you add a crane don’t know how your gonna power it but batteries and cables all add up in weight and you have to carry rigging ? 3. Outriggers sticking out ,walking around them bumping into them leads hoses etc getting hung up on them ?4. Your correct everybody doesn’t do things the same but having two outriggers and using the trailer jack for the third one doe trailer jacks are pretty flimsy and wobbly so I wouldn’t lift anything off the front half of that platform5.Sometimes things sound like they might really be a good idea but by time you get them to work correctly it is very time consuming save the hoist till you have enough cash to build a bigger more rigid rig mount it a go for it we all started out small and moved up just don’t get yourself or your equipment hurt or damaged
Reply:Scsmith42 Really? Nothing fancy? That is epic! Love it. Thanks for sharing. The reel cabinet is sweet. Sent from my moto e6 using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by LeoglOkay I had a tandem axle welding trailer out of necessity because of cash flow but I will tell you a few things I learned the hard way 1. Your going to overload the trailer your gonna throw a little bit more stuff on all the time and your gonna have bits and pieces and before long your overloaded .2. Your gonna run out of space before you add a crane don’t know how your gonna power it but batteries and cables all add up in weight and you have to carry rigging ? 3. Outriggers sticking out ,walking around them bumping into them leads hoses etc getting hung up on them ?4. Your correct everybody doesn’t do things the same but having two outriggers and using the trailer jack for the third one doe trailer jacks are pretty flimsy and wobbly so I wouldn’t lift anything off the front half of that platform5.Sometimes things sound like they might really be a good idea but by time you get them to work correctly it is very time consuming save the hoist till you have enough cash to build a bigger more rigid rig mount it a go for it we all started out small and moved up just don’t get yourself or your equipment hurt or damaged
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Reply:Originally Posted by liberty_metal_worxWhat makes you think I'm not? Are you? And how does that legitimize anyone? I have seen countless contractors that are licensed, bonded and insured that are completely worthless. I KNOW men who do side work and are world class welders. I'm neither worthless or a world class welder. However I do have a business license and am insured.   You go ahead and tell me your professional qualifications too so I can indirectly call you a know-it-all too.   I enjoy and appreciate constructive criticism. We don't all have to agree and that's cool. You don't have to like what I do. Just like you don't have to post your pointless snarky little comment. Bring something to the table. Sent from my moto e6 using TapatalkOriginally Posted by walkerI have been working with heavy equipment and welding for over 30 years. I can tell you definitively that your plan sucks. Any trailer less than 10k is absolutely worthless for any professional purpose in the construction industry (no I am not talking about framers generators or cement mixers, I am talking about hauling stuff). You can make excuses all you want for it, but in the end you are going to do whatever you want to do. A little 4” TT frame is probably worthy of hauling a motorcycle or two, but will not tolerate having a crane mounted to it. At the very least your tongue weight is going to be a bugger to get anywhere near correct with no load or fully loaded. I can watch the bowing of doubled 6” channel on my 10k trailer bow when loading, you 4” won’t tolerate walking on it without deflection. Whatever you do, when it fails, just hope you are not on a commercial jobsite, because OSHA will be called, and their fines are huge. Really though, go ahead and do what you want to do, we need more material in the funny section as well as the welding fails section.
Reply:Originally Posted by liberty_metal_worx10k? For a trailer with a SMALL crane, a welder and some tools? I gotta disagree with ya there. I think you also missed the part where the trailer will be purpose built. So yes it will handle the crane. 4" channel has its limits, yes. Lucky for me those limits are easily overcome by good engineering. Unless you want to buy me some "better" material? Stop trying to convince me I'm wrong because I'm not wrong here. I have encountered many folks like you who tell me I'm not doing it the way of perfect standards. So thank you. Your "kind" keeps my fire going!Unfortunately, you expect  a safety margin of obtuse levels. Mind you I am in the foothills of Appalachia. OSHA? Commercial job site? Non existent. I deal with farmers, loggers and down home excavation companies. They get "tickled" over me wearing a hardhat and reflective safety vest onto a state bridge job site. Also, apparently you have never seen one of these on a little utility trailer or a small truck. Or you did and demanded it be mounted on a 5 ton trailer. Sent from my moto e6 using Tapatalk
Reply:You are correct. Asking questions to a large group of different walks of life gets many different answers. What exactly are you saying though? I'm not here whining about someone telling me my plan just plain sucks. But if I disagree that my project should be built to skyscraper standards, this is suddenly not the place for me. Just what are you getting at? Why do you feel so compelled to nudge me into your way of thinking with your weak passive agressive comments? I am simply keeping the wheat separated from the chaff in this thread. Anyway, I'm hoping to get started this week. I've got some excavator work to do today or I would be harvesting my undersized channel from a weak camper frame. And please don't call OSHA because I won't have safety watch or a foreman on the "job site" today. And I didn't call 811. And I won't have a pilot service escorting me down the road while tramming the machine. And I don't even have a strobe on the machine. Dang. How do I sleep at night?Sent from my moto e6 using Tapatalk
Reply:First of all no one mentioned " skyscraper standards" just real life concerns based on real life experiences. Most light duty cranes are typically mounted near the rear axle on a truck for a reason. Obviously there are exceptions but they use a heavy frame and heavy outriggers for a reason. The very front of a trailer near the tounge is not only the most unstable part of a trailer but generally the weakest as well. In all honesty I could care less what you do since in the end it very well could make out to be some good entertainment. I'm not trying to get anyone to agree with me if they have a differing opinion but coming off as a complete dckhead when someone tells you your idea is anywhere from flawed to fcked. I've dealt with many like you in the past and as I told them," do what you want, your going to do it anyways". One free bit of advice I will give is try to incorporate an X shape into the frame as it will do the most to eliminate twist without adding a lot of weight.
Reply:I like "X" brace. I was thinking of doing one from the front of the axle to the wrapped-style tongue. As far as the reason for mounting locations on a service body, it is mounted on the rear corner for practical reasons. And it isn't just bolted on the box. You have to build a sub frame because guess what! The service body is not ridgid enough to support a crane.Let's just pretend this trailer won't have an axle. I've decided to install hover pods on all four corners. They are powered by a hyper-lithium warp drive and are rated for 20 kajillitons of multi-directional gravitational torsion. I'm still using the old Bobcat for welding power out of nostalgia. And I like hyphenated words.  Here is the outrigger suggested for my crane model. Note that it is far from substantial.  Sent from my moto e6 using Tapatalk
Reply:Well I am not very smart but comments like you made in your last paragraph will probably limit the amount of constructive suggestions you could have had so good luck
Reply:That harbor freight crane you pictured ain’t no Venturo that you said you had. 2500 pounds at 14’ reach is a heck of a lot more crane than that. Should be an ET8K, but older. If what you really have is what you pictured then this whole thread is void, because it is not what you said you had. Attached Images
Reply:Like I said. 2200lbs max ET6KRSent from my moto e6 using Tapatalk
Reply:BoomSent from my moto e6 using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by LeoglWell I am not very smart but comments like you made in your last paragraph will probably limit the amount of constructive suggestions you could have had so good luck
Reply:I've come to the conclusion the OP came here looking, not for advice, but an argument. Upon reading his qualifications he shouldn't need advice anyway.Ol' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Did anyone read the first post? Asking for a friend........Sent from my moto e6 using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by liberty_metal_worxHas anyone mounted a crane on their welding trailer? I've got a Venturo 6'/10'/14' 2200lbs capacity crane with power rotation. I was going to put it on my flatbed but that truck is currently down and I'm building a trailer for mobile welding. Really just going after general repair and such. I get mostly equipment repairs and want to keep it away from the shop if I can help it. I just bought a Bobcat 225 and serviced it. Now it's time for a trailer build. I have a stripped frame with axle from a '76 Wilderness 5th wheel. It has a single 5k axle. What I like about it is it has a 4" channel frame and the two leg landing gear. I'm wondering if I mount the crane up front on a pedestal built into the landing gear bulkhead if the landing gear would be strong enough to serve as an outrigger. The manual only calls for a drop down style support. It's not really an actual outrigger I guess. My other worry is tongue weight. I would like to have the welder behind the landing gear as well with the control panel on the driver's side. The battery(s) and tanks on the front side of the bulkhead. I will build this trailer as a bumper pull. I have two bed side boxes and a couple trailer boxes for storage. I need space on the trailer to transport bulk items and materials. I would also like to incorporate a material rack of sorts but I don't like the possibility of interference with the cranes full range of motion. It will be a balancing act in need of a good floor plan. I need to be able to pull this trailer with an suv if I have to. Should be doable.Any pics out there of a similar build?
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveA few thoughts.  Trailers with cranes are handy, though limited compared to truck mounted (in my opinion).Your flat bed is a much better platform for it.  Having welded from my trailer, I found I didn't really like it that much since it was harder to get into tight areas.  Fortunately it wasn't wider than the truck, so that helped.Receiving training in operation of cranes is not qualifications to design and build a trailer to mount one.I always keep in mind that what I do is a "best guess" based on experience and some math - which is not the same as engineering.The fact that the manual has specs for the sub-frame is super handy though.There are several welders on this website who can help you fine-tune your design once you have one.  You may need "thick skin" during that process - lol.I would not discount their opinions immediately - I know I don't I mounted a hand operated crane on my small trailer once.  It was kind of nice, but the weight was limited to lifting vehicle engines, generators and such.Even with that small amount of weight, the trailer enjoyed quite a range of motion...and being hand operated, the crane didn't like rotating, and then would rotate wildly.  Fortunately yours is power rotation.Good luck with your build
Reply:Like minnesota dave I have a small hand built crane mounted on the back of my 5'x8' tlr. It has a long reach hyd jack to attain boom angle and a hand crank winch with an optional snatch block. I have a spacer and a small bottle jack to put under the crane swivel to apply the crane load to the ground. The most I've picked with it is my 700 lb portable welder and IMO that was the limit. It does the job for me and I know it's limitations.Ol' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Here is a little doodle I did on Qcad. It is a pic taken with my phone as I'm not at the shop and only have my phone for internet access. The yellow lines if you can discern them indicate weight center of the machines and axle to tongue center point. The bottom sample is with the axle centered under the deck. I would probably turn the welder 90* in that configuration. But I like the top better. I just have to wait and see on the axle location.Sent from my moto e6 using Tapatalk
Reply:You mentioned travel trailer landing gear. Where are they in relation to this? A foot or so in from the outside front? Or something that can be installed elsewhere?  Obviously if using the RR mount you will need to the strongest outrigger at that point, and then some way to level and stabilize the trailer at opposing points.
Reply:Originally Posted by M J DYou mentioned travel trailer landing gear. Where are they in relation to this? A foot or so in from the outside front? Or something that can be installed elsewhere?  Obviously if using the RR mount you will need to the strongest outrigger at that point, and then some way to level and stabilize the trailer at opposing points.
Reply:I think I will be lowering the landing gear. I am flipping the drop axle and mounting it under the springs. The dealerships would do this back in the day because these campers sat so low.Sent from my moto e6 using Tapatalk
Reply:Here is a completed sketch of the construction. I just have the back two crossmembers to tack in. Then I will bring it in the shop and weld it up. Im leaving the axle where it is for now. It should be balanced well enough where it will pull nice without too much tongue weight.
Reply:Not ideal for tounge weight but really good as far as crane placement. Always better to have more tounge weight than less than, provided it's not too drastic.
Reply:I am going to say if you move that axle all the way back like that picture you better have a good truck to pull it cause you are going to be tongue heavy ! I have had a couple of welding trailers so be prepared if you move that axle all the way back .
Reply:Thanks. I have calculated the the weight fore and aft of the axle. This includes the frame and equipment. The only thing I did not account for is the weight of the landing gear which is moot IMO. It won't exceed the limitations of my vehicles, but it's on the hefty side. Sent from my moto e6 using Tapatalk
Reply:Oh and that is where the axle is already mounted on the frame. If I don't like the location I plan to move it. But no sense in moving it if I don't have to. Sent from my moto e6 using Tapatalk
Reply:Yeah might as well see how it works.