Business owners.

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Business owners thread is now OPEN. Any funny business and we all know what happens next. ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I'm from Portland.  I thought about doing a mobile Bike welding business.  Lol.  My friend does all his carpentry business with an electric bike, cordless tools and a bike trailer. Attached Images“I'm going to do the thing that God put Galen Beasley on this Earth to do:Have Salon quality hair and weld.Nothing like a good cup of coffee and the smell of 6010 burning in the morning. 971-204-3444 cell API ASME Structural NDT and Repair
Reply:I had been really hoping for a business subforum.  But.Nice to see a sticky here.  Maybe a few links to some past discussions are in order as we happen to run across them.  Off the top of my head, here are a few bullet points in no particular order related to business that might be worth discussing in our non-subforum as people get the time or inclination:1) Insurance2) Salesmanship3) Estimating4) Licensing5) Taxes6) Vendors7) Customers8) Safety9) Personal Finance10) Business Finance11) Regulations12) Invoicing13) Accounts Receivable14) Accounts Payable15) Bookkeeping Programs16) Short, Medium, and Long-Range Goals / Planning17) Flexibility18) Business Life Cycle19) Balancing Business vs Life20) Hours Worked: Reality Check21) Gross vs Net: Reality Check22) Likelihood of Getting Rich: Reality Check23) Dealing with Employees24) Handling Screw-Ups25) Judging Readiness to Jump In by Questions Being Asked26) "I'm starting my own business, what welder should I buy?"27) Working in the Residential Sector28) Overhead, Fixed and Variable29) "How much should I charge?"30) Working for Friends31) Business Classes, Are They Dumb?32) "Should I blindly trust business advice given on the interwebz?"33) "Who is Stick-Man, and why does he steal from tbone550?"34) Working for Farmers35) Net 60, or, "Why don't I have my money yet?"36) 2%10/Net 30, or, "Why should I pay some of my bills promptly?"37) "Why do you guys own your own businesses if all you do is complain?"38) "It's 12:05 a.m., why is tbone550 typing this crap instead of sleeping?"39) Vacation Time40) Sick Time41) Personal Time42) How to Quit Working for the Man Without Burning Bridges43) Politeness: Is it Important?44) Skill at Welding vs Skill at Business45) The Golden Rule Applied to Business46) Mobile Work vs Shop Work47) Timeliness48) Hiring and Firing49) Drug Testing50) USDOT and Other Regulations on Mobile Welders51) How to Figure Break-Even Points52) Buying Equipment: Used vs New, Basic vs High-Tech53) Understanding Your Market Segment54) Advertising, or, "Did I just smell a Unicorn Fart?"55) Reputation, or, "What you do and say Matters."56) How to Deal with your Competition57) Doing More with Less, or, "Was my old boss right sometimes after all?"58) Why Isn't the Grass Greener Over Here?59) Statistics, or, "Figures don't lie, but liars figure."60) End of the Year Quandary: Spending to "Save" Tax Money61) Emergency Funds62) Risk vs Risk Aversity in a Business Owner63) Cash Flow, or, "Will I eat today?"64) Budgeting vs Blowing Money on Frivolous Crap65) Retirement Savings, or, "Do I want to be doing this when I'm 80?"66) Entrance and Exit StrategiesOK, that's all for now.  Should be enough there for some discussion to get rolling anyway.
Reply:tbone55019) Balancing Business vs LifeI'm fortunate - I was born 'afflicted' with terminal welding - and have no life . . .33) "Who is Stick-Man, and why does he steal from tbone550 ?"How can I steal from Stick-Man . . . ? 38) "It's 12:05 a.m., why is tbone550 typing this crap instead of sleeping?"You can't sleep - because your 'daily deliberations' are scrolling through your mind . . .66) Entrance and Exit StrategiesWe all exit the same way - obviously, 'your entrance / to exit' - is grander than mine . . . tbone550Your template is the most comprehensive 'opener' - for a new thread, I have read - onmy time on the forum ^ ^ ^ Opus.Last edited by OPUS FERRO; 06-03-2017 at 02:07 AM.Reason: Correction - there are no synonyms . . .
Reply:Unless you like dealing with cheap homeowners and putting up wrought iron fences don't pay to get on home advisor. That was the quickest $1000 I've ever spent and got nothing in return.Lone Star Mobile Welding, LLC2006 Ram 3500Lincoln Ranger 250GXTHypertherm 30 AirK2000 CAG ESAB Rebel 215ic Milwaukee mag drillDewalt dry cut sawMilwaukee metal cutting circular sawMilwaukee M18 Fuel Chisholm Lead Reels
Reply:34) Working for FarmersT Bone, I dont know about working for farmers but if they are like working for pastors at non denomination churches; stay away.
Reply:My experience with churches is varied.  Some good.  Some comical.  Couple documented here.  Ironically there is a church have seen for near 20 years. I haven't  been able to essentially give my service(material and minimal labor) away to repair a botched/abandoned rail job by a contractor 20 years ago.
Reply:Yes, results with churches depend greatly on the type of people making up the finance committee.  The more people involved, the more likelihood that lowest price will be the deciding factor or the more likelihood that someone's cousin's uncle's son-in-law with a welder will end up doing the work.A lot of churches don't have tons of money sitting around in an account, so the decision to spend some is hard-fought within the congregation.  I give work to my home church, like I give work to my friends and family.  None of these have seen fit to abuse the relationship, and sometimes they give me help when I need it, too.  I have not had any luck with requests from other churches to quote work for them.  This work has involved fences, handrails, and stairs / platforms, both repair and new construction.  I quoted my standard rate for this work.  In most cases, a member of the congregation ended up doing the work.  In others, once my quote was received, the entire project was modified to reduce costs.  Of the latter, a memorable one of these involved a desire by the local Catholic Church to have a SS fence like the one I'd built on the adjoining property.  I tried to give them an idea beforehand of how expensive this would be, but the clue wasn't taken; they had "plenty of money" to do this.  So I spent a half-day on the site measuring, calling for materials pricing, looking at and suggesting / estimating demo work to existing structures in addition to the fence buidling, then handed in the quote soon after.  My ideas for demo work were done by someone else, and a chain link fence went up instead.You win some, you lose some.  Last edited by tbone550; 06-03-2017 at 10:37 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by achirdoUnless you like dealing with cheap homeowners and putting up wrought iron fences don't pay to get on home advisor. That was the quickest $1000 I've ever spent and got nothing in return.
Reply:Older gentleman saves money most of his life with a dream to get into business. Travels to the big city and soon meets some nice men who said they could help set him up in business if he had start up capital which he did. Three months later the nice men had the money and he had the business.
Reply:Number one rule of business, to me, being a CPA is keep records. You can't figure out your true costs without records, and you can't maximize your deductions without records. You don't need a shoe box of receipts either, but that will do. You can always snap pictures of your receipts with your phone and store them digitally in the cloud with something like Evernote or OneNote. Heck you can even do it with quickbooks on your smartphone now too. Keep track of all the miles you drive too.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:For me the key to business is knowing your limitations. You can't please everyone. And when your gut tells you no, even though your brain can't see anything wrong, it is always best to listen to your gut.
Reply:Originally Posted by Willie BMy sense is Home Advisor will, (for a handsome fee), give my name along with anyone else they have found desperate enough, to bargain hunters. Bargain hunters will in turn, request bids from me and all the other names on the list. If my bid is lower than all the other candidates, I likely will lose money. If it is higher than any other candidate, I have wasted my time bidding. My goal is to at least break even on all jobs. I believe Home Advisor, and Angie's List exist to extract money for little service to anyone. They aren't going to help me attain my goal.Willie
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961Number one rule of business, to me, being a CPA is keep records. You can't figure out your true costs without records, and you can't maximize your deductions without records. You don't need a shoe box of receipts either, but that will do. You can always snap pictures of your receipts with your phone and store them digitally in the cloud with something like Evernote or OneNote. Heck you can even do it with quickbooks on your smartphone now too. Keep track of all the miles you drive too.
Reply:Sam Walton said its a thousand times easier to keep the customer you already have than it is to bring one new one through the door
Reply:Originally Posted by downhandSam Walton said its a thousand times easier to keep the customer you already have than it is to bring one new one through the door
Reply:Originally Posted by tbone550There's some truth to that, but then again, most of the customers that most of us started with, were cheapskates; people so cheap that they were willing to toss whatever loyalty they had to their previous welding service supplier in order to get a cheaper product.  Come to think of it, that's how Wal-Mart got their customers as well.The issue with Wal-Mart is that they need tens of millions of customers to stay afloat; they depend on economies of scale.  If you're a little guy, you are going to have a hard time making ends meet by being the price leader.  You'll work twice the hours for half the pay, and you'll die an early death.  Better to have a price that's fair to you and your customers, let the ones go who can't seem to stomach more than $35/hr, and choose customers who will allow you to make a living wage.  Plenty of people in the welding business never get their rates to where they're actually able to live because they're too stuck on satisfying a group of customers that demand fast, cheap, and good.  As we all know, those are the three things that cannot be supplied indefinitely.Once you move up to a level of customer that can sustain you, that's the time to fight tooth and nail to keep them.  I know it sounds harsh, but it's what I've found to be true.  As you grow, you shed "certain" (not all) customers.  Let the cream stay with you.
Reply:Originally Posted by Willie BI pay my bills by providing electrical expertise. My field is one where every sixth grade graduate believes himself to be my equal. Three people a week on average tell me about their expertise with electricity. The fact is: I have no loyal customers.
Reply:T bone. Your first post was great... I'm sure people thinking or just getting into business haven't thought about a majority of the things you listed.As far as customers go... I agree 100% I have been in business for about 1.5 years now... and I am starting to see a shift in customers. when I started I was fixing the stuff that should of been scrapped years ago for farmers and individuals. occasionally get a decent fab job. As things progressed, I started getting into some companies, You find out quickly who is just making the rounds with your service, Expecting you to bend over backwards for them and then forget to pay you. But Finally I am getting a few solid REPEAT customers who are easy to work with but make a point to pay QUICKLY. THat is huge when you are starting out.- Christian M.C3 Welding & Fabrication - CNC Plasma Cutting-Mobile Welding-Custom welding and fabwww.c3welding.com
Reply:Not really a question,  just wanting to talk about it so i can draw a conclusion for myself and see if I'm on the right path for me or not.It has always been my mentality that a business must grow and evolve to survive? Well ive been doing my share of both here lately and it scares the hell out of me and gives me a thrill at the same time . So what I'm asking from the experienced people is , does an average exist or is their "sweet" spot anyone has found on how "big" to grow a business? Many , many variables to consider, what are some pros and cons of remaining a small one , sometimes 2 man operation , versus letting this thing continue to grow .
Reply:In my case I have always had a fear of growing too big. My father ran a two man operation, I ran one man 20 years. Fact is those were more profitable years. I put in longer hours, didn't find time to spend money. My son joined me, two households to support, more down time between billable times. Customers who pay slow are my biggest hardship. Collecting my money is a big part of my world.WillieAn optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:Originally Posted by dossweldingNot really a question,  just wanting to talk about it so i can draw a conclusion for myself and see if I'm on the right path for me or not.It has always been my mentality that a business must grow and evolve to survive? Well ive been doing my share of both here lately and it scares the hell out of me and gives me a thrill at the same time . So what I'm asking from the experienced people is , does an average exist or is their "sweet" spot anyone has found on how "big" to grow a business? Many , many variables to consider, what are some pros and cons of remaining a small one , sometimes 2 man operation , versus letting this thing continue to grow .
Reply:Willie b , i agree in my few years of experience running a business is like a pinball bouncing in a triangle . The three points of the triangle are getting the work i have in front of me done , finding work to do next week and lastly collecting for work that is completed.  The "bigger" you are the faster the ball will haft to bounce between the three points in the triangle. If something happens to break the triangle while playing a big wheel it is hard to get it going again before the other two points of the triangle catch you and put you under.I am learning this lesson at the moment while playing the game of growing a business and i have realized i need to increase my operating capital by another 10k of money in the bank at all times to cover the unexpected if I'm gonna continue to take the work I'm taking at the moment.  Learning lessons come hard and quick running a business, good credit is a must for anyone planning to start a business, cash flow will always be a concern, a person must always keep plan b for when that big check don't come on time.Camjeep3 , i have learned their is no 100% guarantee in anything. But there are certain things a person can do to protect themselves against times of downfall . The biggest thing is to live well within a person's means and save save save . Also i don't know how it will work and i hope i dont ever haft to find out if it will work. But i have been pushing my business towards public utilities such as power , water and sewer , because in a poor economy infrastructure will be the last thing to go . Hopefully this plan can keep me going thru hard times , even if i have to scale back it hopefully wont be a total loss .
Reply:If I responded to every request for a bid I could easily spend 50 hours a week. In the same sense that I don't buy lottery tickets, or patronize casinos, I try very hard to avoid gambling on bids. It is an inexact science to figure out how serious a potential customer might be. The customer wanting to know how much to budget is to get some leeway. The bargain hunter soliciting bids from six or more providers I can't be bothered. I want to provide a quality job, undercutting all the competition will not serve that goal. Recently a wholesaler had an event to find the fastest electrician. A lady employee there encouraged me to compete. I replied that speed was not my thing. "Well, your son might be fastest" she replied. "He better not be!" was my comeback. A big majority of electrical fires are associated with arcing. Almost all arcing is the result of shortcut workmanship. I don't want the person who packs my parachute to be the fastest. I wouldn't want my electrician to be fastest either.WillieAn optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:Originally Posted by dossweldingNot really a question,  just wanting to talk about it so i can draw a conclusion for myself and see if I'm on the right path for me or not.It has always been my mentality that a business must grow and evolve to survive? Well ive been doing my share of both here lately and it scares the hell out of me and gives me a thrill at the same time . So what I'm asking from the experienced people is , does an average exist or is their "sweet" spot anyone has found on how "big" to grow a business? Many , many variables to consider, what are some pros and cons of remaining a small one , sometimes 2 man operation , versus letting this thing continue to grow .Originally Posted by Louie1961Number one rule of business, to me, being a CPA is keep records. You can't figure out your true costs without records, and you can't maximize your deductions without records. You don't need a shoe box of receipts either, but that will do. You can always snap pictures of your receipts with your phone and store them digitally in the cloud with something like Evernote or OneNote. Heck you can even do it with quickbooks on your smartphone now too. Keep track of all the miles you drive too.
Reply:I have worked for myself for years, not doing welding, but as a contractor doing marketing and corp comm and as an adjunct college English professor. I went back to corporate two years because I found a place I love, but I still teach on the side. I also edit papers, manuscripts, etc.Gina M. TabassoHGR Industrial [email protected]
Reply:Ill go ahead and throw this out there. In business, the saying, "its not what you know but WHO you know" is very true. Networking, is huge- Christian M.C3 Welding & Fabrication - CNC Plasma Cutting-Mobile Welding-Custom welding and fabwww.c3welding.com
Reply:If your thinking of going in business for yourself, you have to have your head screwed on straight and think about a few things.You will be everything from the owner to the janitor, so keep this in mind.Everything will be on your shoulders, so as Clint Eastwood would say (you have to know your limitations). If your married you have a (partner), not just to help take care of the house hold, but to help out with small things if you need ( like bring you the drill and bolts you left on the shop floor and forgot to put in the truck. So you wouldn't waste two hours picking everything up to get it yourself ).  And as stated keeping good records, saving everything, writing it down, save it in your phone etc. There is a lot more to it then just raking in the money.www.georgesplasmacuttershop.comPlasma Cutter and Welder Sales and Repairs--Ebay storeTec.Mo. Dealer Consumables for the PT and IPT torch's
Reply:If your married you have a (partner), not just to help take care of the house hold, but to help out with small things if you need ( like bring you the drill and bolts you left on the shop floor and forgot to put in the truck. So you wouldn't waste two hours picking everything up to get it yourself ).  This  can make you or break you.  If you have a mate that is unable or unwilling to help you it will be twice as hard to accomplish anything. If you have a wife that does nothing but complain and will not life a finger to help I suggest you forget about a business.
Reply:I have 2 huge jobs going up in the next couple months. 60k#s of steel in between the 2. Going to be the 2 biggest jobs I've ever done. One is a structural job, residential house, 43 columns, 63 beamsThe other is huge outdoor Trellis, 80'x20' and 20'x20'Lone Star Mobile Welding, LLC2006 Ram 3500Lincoln Ranger 250GXTHypertherm 30 AirK2000 CAG ESAB Rebel 215ic Milwaukee mag drillDewalt dry cut sawMilwaukee metal cutting circular sawMilwaukee M18 Fuel Chisholm Lead Reels
Reply:Originally Posted by Willie BI pay my bills by providing electrical expertise. My field is one where every sixth grade graduate believes himself to be my equal. Three people a week on average tell me about their expertise with electricity. The fact is: I have no loyal customers. Repeat customers believe that in some way, I provide more value than others. I did nearly all electrical work for 19 years for one builder. The last summer was insanely busy. I notified him that the second full week of August, I would be going on vacation with my wife, and sons. As the weeks elapsed, he surprised me with one after another jobs not fitting into the schedule. I knocked myself out, but was proud that I kept up with the work load. On the Thursday late in the day I was soon to leave on vacation he announced he was going to gut a house on Sunday. I could have the week to rewire. I reminded him I would be away, (it had often come up in conversation). He chuckled: "Go on vacation when there is no work to do". I responded that my wife is a teacher, this is the last week she can go. These were immensely fussy homeowners, they were not planning to live elsewhere while their house was under construction. Leaving them in a gutted house for a week while no progress was made would be unthinkable. "You'll be here" he responded. That was 12 years ago.He hasn't asked me to do a job for him since. NEVER COUNT ON LOYALTY FROM YOUR CUSTOMERS! Willie
Reply:Been working for myself for over 15 years.Biggest fear was coming across a lunatic, but not knowing it until I was either already into the job, or had just finished the job.   Fear does eventually come true, but if you can handle it, then it makes you a better contractor down the line.  Nutjob ladies can make you crazy.Trust your senses.  Same nutjob lady called me last year about a door install.   Said that I thought it would be best to wait till this year.  She said nothing.  Thought she was just a nutjob that didn't need me to to the work for her, and found someone else for cheaper. about 1.5 months ago, I get an email asking me to proceed with the job..  I go to her house, contract in hand for the stated dollar amount we discussed the year before, and before she signs it, she starts to complain that she felt that the amount I was charging her didn't work out in her head.   She couldn't understand why there was extra fees for extra work....  DUH !I said to her, "Okay, can I have the contract back, and I'll be on my way.  I'm sure you can find a qualified contractor to do the job".   She balked, and signed the contract while stating that she couldn't find anyone else to do the job.I should trust my SPIDEY Senses by now, and they were tingling, but I didn't think it was gonna go awry.   It did,.... luckily, after I got paid.She hounded me the entire time on the job.  As I was finishing up, she comes to the window and says " I have to leave now, and I don't know when I'm coming back.  I have to take my neighbor to the hospital".I tell her, I'm finishing up now, can you leave me a check.  I'll leave the paperwork behind, and you can sign the invoice, and mail it back to me.The next day, I get a Text message.  No not a phone call, a text message.She says that shes "SOBBING HYSTERICALLY", as the door doesn't look as good as it should.After replying back to her "so this is how you're going to address this? " I had to go back and make an adjustment to the door to please her "picky-ness".   I went back, did what she asked, and she was all happy again...Sobbing hysterically ????  Over a door install ?     Really ?   Hope you don't get cancer, you loon..You will, eventually, come across NUTTY PEOPLE.    Some of them you can meet on any web forumLast edited by T man; 06-03-2018 at 12:45 AM.T man.15 + years working for myself, and by golly, I still don't know what I want to do when I grow up.
Reply:In the 1980s a rich New York NY woman who happened to be Jewish, and was very vocal about having the personality of her stereotype. She was LOUD, foul mouthed, pushy, demanding, and a total fool about decisions. She chain smoked cigars.Small towns where the highway has moved away from Main street decline. Danby, and adjacent Mount Tabor are little towns of 1200 people combined. Much of the history of the towns involves a man who was a spoiled rich kid in 1865. Mount Tabor had been a ghost town owing to rail road ROWs and a taxpayer revolt as residents refused to pay for a railroad most wouldn't be able to benefit from, but would bring prosperity to Danby. The Civil War policy of taking every able bodied man on the same day, then left Mount Tabor farms with no workers. Only a few returned. Ultimately, the Town auctioned the land in a tax seizure. 25 year old Silas Griffith used family money to buy 21,000 acres for the price of $1,100, about $.05 per acre. He stripped the mountain, made many products, lumber, charcoal, bark for tanneries, potash, and others. By his death in 1903, he owned 200,000 acres.Annie Rothman fell in love with the man who died 85 years earlier, and set out to own all the buildings he had once owned. Her first decision was to hire the former town drunk as her advisor.   He, being a reformed drunk, strongly favored the hiring of other reformed drunks, and addicts. A few sub contractors weren't drunks, but the full time staff of 15 had all been. With a few exceptions, their qualification was limited to recovering from alcoholism. Some of the worst carpentry I've ever seen was done there. One 3000 square foot house she claimed to have spent $1,000,000 renovating, including some of the most overpriced foundation work, fell in the river 24 years later, and was totally destroyed.Working for Annie was DIFFICULT. I've said, after Annie, everybody else is easy. My illustration of a sheet metal ceiling in a Victorian great room. The embossed ceiling panels were brought from New York. She wanted a mix of track, recessed, and a huge chandelier. Six times she insisted on a complete rearrangement of the lighting. New panels were ordered, and the copper nails were drilled out to avoid damage to overlapping panels. I used to kid her; "Lady, as long as the money holds out, there's no such thing as a problem!" She would respond with an obscenity and walk away.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:Originally Posted by T manBeen working for myself for over 15 years.Biggest fear was coming across a lunatic, but not knowing it until I was either already into the job, or had just finished the job.   Fear does eventually come true, but if you can handle it, then it makes you a better contractor down the line.  Nutjob ladies can make you crazy.Trust your senses.  Same nutjob lady called me last year about a door install.   Said that I thought it would be best to wait till this year.  She said nothing.  Thought she was just a nutjob that didn't need me to to the work for her, and found someone else for cheaper. about 1.5 months ago, I get an email asking me to proceed with the job..  I go to her house, contract in hand for the stated dollar amount we discussed the year before, and before she signs it, she starts to complain that she felt that the amount I was charging her didn't work out in her head.   She couldn't understand why there was extra fees for extra work....  DUH !I said to her, "Okay, can I have the contract back, and I'll be on my way.  I'm sure you can find a qualified contractor to do the job".   She balked, and signed the contract while stating that she couldn't find anyone else to do the job.I should trust my SPIDEY Senses by now, and they were tingling, but I didn't think it was gonna go awry.   It did,.... luckily, after I got paid.She hounded me the entire time on the job.  As I was finishing up, she comes to the window and says " I have to leave now, and I don't know when I'm coming back.  I have to take my neighbor to the hospital".I tell her, I'm finishing up now, can you leave me a check.  I'll leave the paperwork behind, and you can sign the invoice, and mail it back to me.The next day, I get a Text message.  No not a phone call, a text message.She says that shes "SOBBING HYSTERICALLY", as the door doesn't look as good as it should.After replying back to her "so this is how you're going to address this? " I had to go back and make an adjustment to the door to please her "picky-ness".   I went back, did what she asked, and she was all happy again...Sobbing hysterically ????  Over a door install ?     Really ?   Hope you don't get cancer, you loon..You will, eventually, come across NUTTY PEOPLE.    Some of them you can meet on any web forum
Reply:Originally Posted by Willie BThis year it has been near impossible to get generators. Orders are backed up months. The unavailability of generators seems to have made people obsessed to have them.One elderly lady inquired. She has a home phone, no computer. She hasn't left her home since Covid began. She is phobic about Covid!When I went to look at her house it wasn't where she gave directions to. I ultimately asked a neighbor, he directed me to her house, not even on the right road. Her house is feet away from Route 30, on a sharp corner. Traffic noise is incredible! She shouted from the porch "Don't come any closer! I'm terrified of Covid!"Can't call her from the lawn, no cell service. Her dog barked endlessly, traffic noise drowned out most conversation. I spent 1-1/2 hour discussing where I could place a generator acceptable to her. No acceptable site was found. She found it ugly, and didn't want it anywhere she had any risk of seeing it. I was relieved, I knew this was going to be a difficult customer.A dozen half hour phone calls later & warning her it'll be a 12 to 15 week wait for delivery, she ordered the generator. I explained that I wasn't going to order it until I received her deposit. She insisted I order that day. Ultimately, she sent the check rush postal delivery. A week later, she's demanding to know why it hadn't arrived. I explained the projected delivery date again. She must have called me 20 times over the next 10 weeks, upset about no generator yet. Meanwhile she was feuding with her gas supplier/installer. I believe they had put her on a nutcase list.At 10 weeks, she called. She couldn't wait any longer, and the gas installer needed an exact date to install gas. This was too much for her, she was cancelling the order.I sent her a check to refund her deposit. She hasn't cashed it.I know I haven't heard the last of her. One day she will be on the phone demanding to pick up where we left off.
Reply:I was going through something this week that still has not completely ended. I have received eight text messages and an email from them and I am still not sure what they want from me. I have stopped responding.Millermatic 252 MIGMiller Dynasty 200DX TIGMiller Spectrum 625 PlasmaAltas 12x36 Metal LatheBridgeport Milling Machinewww.psacustomcreations.com
Reply:Originally Posted by psacustomcreationsI was going through something this week that still has not completely ended. I have received eight text messages and an email from them and I am still not sure what they want from me. I have stopped responding.
Reply:Originally Posted by ronsiiDoes it involve western union money orders? and refunding the difference?
Reply:Originally Posted by OPUS FERROYou can't sleep - because your 'daily deliberations' are scrolling through your mind . . .Opus
Reply:Originally Posted by psacustomcreationsI wish. At least then it would be clear what they wanted. This one was a doozy Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by John TIm void of deliberations. I get stuck with endless repetitions of the guitar solo from the last song I heard before I close the coffin lid. No steely dan please ...La La La La ...
Reply:In the 1970's (late that decade) I began to provide welded aluminum boats to our local area in the N to S 'middle' of Cook Inlet in S.Central Alaska.  Most of my skiffs were set net skiffs for the Kasilof and Kenai river beaches on the East side of the Inlet.In my first few orders I learned some pretty costly lessons that can be translated to other businesses and have to do with business terms of an order for services or one-off built welded products.Commercial fishermen as a group are small businessmen and women who're working against seasonal fluctuations of weather, fish migration, market pricing and some other factors all adding up to a bit of a gamble of success where that is defined by making a profit in a given seasons' fishing.One model of preparation is to rely on the 'cannery' or fish buyer/processor for 'interim' or gear-up money.  In this the cannery is a bank that lends the fisherman money to get ready to fish and then buys their fish and settles any finance balance at the end of the season.This might be like a local bank helping to buy feed, seed or stock for a farmer in the flat, middle states?In this case I'd not been involved in selling boats so I didn't realize the fishermen who ordered welded skiffs would expect me to wait to be paid until they'd been paid - so they (often) expected to order a skiff, have it built (fall to winter) and then take delivery in the spring, and not pay for what I'd done for up to 10 months!!! They assumed that I'd be their bank like the cannery was, and I expected they'd pay for their skiffs when they were done in the fall or winter months.That kind of miscommunications can happen if we don't make sure we have high quality communications and a well drawn contract and I'd even advocate learning about "Sharp Clauses" in a work order/contract/ service agreement.The first year I got stuck with a huge bill of consumables, materials and labour, rent and all... and had to go back to welding by the hour in the oilfield because of poorly written "contracts"!From then on, I used a contract with sharp clauses that they signed paragraph by paragraph, individually. These specified that if I was not paid in full with in 10 business days of the date of notification, and a local, legal, legit contact was required - no out of state addresses- always a cannery, lawyer, or family member (who had to agree in writing to the contract) :The entire 50% deposit was forfeit AND the money in the deposit, and the skiff(!) became mine.I know this sounds drastic, but that was what I had to do to keep from being an involuntary 'bank' for my customers due to their habits of relying on their canneries to finance their businesses!So, while I understand these weren't common circumstances; a small fab shop should begin to understand that those customers you don't get when they read such a contract are customers you don't want!After I began using this contract where a client paid regardless if they took delivery for another few months?  95% of my cash flow problems evaporated, and local cannery offices paid promptly after visiting the shop and seeing the skiffs ready to fish.If someone find those terms unreasonable? they've labelled themselves - not you.Cheers,Kevin MorinKenai, AK
Reply:Originally Posted by Kevin MorinIn the 1970's (late that decade) I began to provide welded aluminum boats to our local area in the N to S 'middle' of Cook Inlet in S.Central Alaska.  Most of my skiffs were set net skiffs for the Kasilof and Kenai river beaches on the East side of the Inlet.In my first few orders I learned some pretty costly lessons that can be translated to other businesses and have to do with business terms of an order for services or one-off built welded products.Commercial fishermen as a group are small businessmen and women who're working against seasonal fluctuations of weather, fish migration, market pricing and some other factors all adding up to a bit of a gamble of success where that is defined by making a profit in a given seasons' fishing.One model of preparation is to rely on the 'cannery' or fish buyer/processor for 'interim' or gear-up money.  In this the cannery is a bank that lends the fisherman money to get ready to fish and then buys their fish and settles any finance balance at the end of the season.This might be like a local bank helping to buy feed, seed or stock for a farmer in the flat, middle states?In this case I'd not been involved in selling boats so I didn't realize the fishermen who ordered welded skiffs would expect me to wait to be paid until they'd been paid - so they (often) expected to order a skiff, have it built (fall to winter) and then take delivery in the spring, and not pay for what I'd done for up to 10 months!!! They assumed that I'd be their bank like the cannery was, and I expected they'd pay for their skiffs when they were done in the fall or winter months.That kind of miscommunications can happen if we don't make sure we have high quality communications and a well drawn contract and I'd even advocate learning about "Sharp Clauses" in a work order/contract/ service agreement.The first year I got stuck with a huge bill of consumables, materials and labour, rent and all... and had to go back to welding by the hour in the oilfield because of poorly written "contracts"!From then on, I used a contract with sharp clauses that they signed paragraph by paragraph, individually. These specified that if I was not paid in full with in 10 business days of the date of notification, and a local, legal, legit contact was required - no out of state addresses- always a cannery, lawyer, or family member (who had to agree in writing to the contract) :The entire 50% deposit was forfeit AND the money in the deposit, and the skiff(!) became mine.I know this sounds drastic, but that was what I had to do to keep from being an involuntary 'bank' for my customers due to their habits of relying on their canneries to finance their businesses!So, while I understand these weren't common circumstances; a small fab shop should begin to understand that those customers you don't get when they read such a contract are customers you don't want!After I began using this contract where a client paid regardless if they took delivery for another few months?  95% of my cash flow problems evaporated, and local cannery offices paid promptly after visiting the shop and seeing the skiffs ready to fish.If someone find those terms unreasonable? they've labelled themselves - not you.Cheers,Kevin MorinKenai, AK
Reply:Originally Posted by EdinStopswhat do you mean