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Lesson here - live and learn!I had a new TIG welder but no argon gas, bottle, or regulator - just small CO2 tanks."Bring your TIG welder over next time you're up my way", said my out-of-town pal.So 200km (120 miles) and a few weeks later, I was in my pal's garage."I just got my bottle filled. let's give her a try."Note: Neither of us had 'tigged' before... but we'd been around it and knew what to expect.Being our 1st time, we went at just 40 amps (electrode negative) on some sheet metal (steel).Arc lite just fine... just like on TV!Over the next say 15 minutes, we each took turns playing... neither of us could lay a bead but then... WTF?Yeah, the end of my ceramic cup fell off! The electrode was all crapped-up too!Want to see a close up?Lovely eh? Just lovely!"Hey what's going on?" "Are you sure that gas is argon?""It's 'ArgoShield'.""ArgoShield ! That's like C25 - 75% Argon and 25% CO2. The CO2 is burning up the torch."Ah well... it was fun while it lasted!Lesson = TIG needs inert gas like argon, C25 doesn't cut it! Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Only use Argon for TIG. Or helium for special things.CO2 can plasma or laser cut, very nicely, when you subject it to electricity. More then hot enough to melt ceramic. The gases around the sun are CO2. So you know that 10,000 degrees is a possibility. The sun gives off a white plasma like light if you are not in the earths atmosphere. You also do not want to breath the fumes from doing, what you did with the CO2 passing over the Tungsten. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:******Rick, if you don't mind, these great pics need to be posted in a sticky, to help answer the same questionthat is asked here-weekly. Thanks for posting this!Blackbird
Reply:William,The sun only has a very very small amount of oxygen and carbon. Not a great comparison!Element Abundance(percentage of total number of atoms) Hydrogen 91.2 %Helium 8.7 % Oxygen 0.078 %Carbon 0.043 %Nitrogen 0.0088 %Silicon 0.0045 %Magnesium 0.0038 %Neon 0.0035 %Iron 0.0030 %Sulfur 0.0015 %Last edited by joedirt1966; 08-14-2010 at 07:41 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick JrThe sun gives off a white plasma like light if you are not in the earths atmosphere. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick Jr The sun gives off a white plasma like light if you are not in the earths atmosphere. William McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by joedirt1966William,The sun only has a very very small amount of oxygen and carbon. Not a great comparison!Element Abundance(percentage of total number of atoms) Hydrogen 91.2 %Helium 8.7 % Oxygen 0.078 %Carbon 0.043 %Nitrogen 0.0088 %Silicon 0.0045 %Magnesium 0.0038 %Neon 0.0035 %Iron 0.0030 %Sulfur 0.0015 %
Reply:Welcome back William! Attached Images
Reply:I'd just like to thank Rick for being able to use his camera!!!!! Nice Pic's Rick!!! Hope the torch isn't wrecked.200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:Billy,Next time you plan to swing by and do some tig welding on the surface of the sun, please let us know so we can prepare for the resulting "sun spots".PS. You're the only one who lives in "your little world", so be aware, most of the garbage you put out, doesn't apply to us mere mortals.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Here is something from the past that was geared more for the average eighth grade superman. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:What in the fulk does this have to do with running C25 thru a tig torch?Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIWhat in the fulk does this have to do with running C25 thru a tig torch?
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIWhat in the fulk does this have to do with running C25 thru a tig torch?
Reply:Oh My...I get indigestion from Mexican food...Carbon may make things hard...But it also makes them brittle.Easier to break it than to drill it....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:When cable first came out, we could not afford it. So I silver soldered drill rod into a set of pole climbers I made from steel. Good thing the drill rod broke before I got to the top. Ha-ha. Those tar splinters smart. Ha-ha. I used to go up the pole and take the dummy plugs they put in, once your free trial ran out. And I would drill them out and make them through connectors. So we got all the channels. Ha-ha. Yea pays to know your carbon. Ha-ha. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:Oh My... I can't believe it... what happened to my simple post?I feel like a 60's flower child whose demure innocence has been stomped over by rampant Neo-Nazis.Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:I don't think Billy was talking about a Civil War tank with a carbon steel shell.I think that was his head he was talking about. Few legitimate thoughts can penetrate it.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick VOh My... I can't believe it... what happened to my simple post?I feel like a 60's flower child whose demure innocence has been stomped over by rampant Neo-Nazis.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterOh My...I get indigestion from Mexican food...Carbon may make things hard...But it also makes them brittle.Easier to break it than to drill it....zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIII don't think Billy was talking about a Civil War tank with a carbon steel shell.I think that was his head he was talking about. Few legitimate thoughts can penetrate it.
Reply:Billy....YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!!!! WE DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR RAMBLINGS!!SHUT THE FUKK UP!!!!!http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbeadi got carbon but it didnt make anything hard...
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick JrThey did a really great special on the civil war tank. The round it fired, was said to ignite wood into flames, within a quarter mile radius of its detonation. It used rather simple compounds to do it. That was why the tank was two inches thick and made of actually black colored carbon steel. To protect the operator from his own ammo. They said the round would expand to the size of a basketball before rupturing. The tank would come ashore and fire a few rounds and leave. Leaving burnt waste land behind it. I just thought that for that time those guys had some wild stuff. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by socoj2This nonsense you speak. link to a reference.Back to square one....Argon or Helium for TIG....helium being hotter...in my experience?William said: "You also do not want to breath the fumes from doing, what you did with the CO2 passing over the Tungsten".What about ALL the MIG fab shops who use str8 Co2 instead of 75-25,stargone,etc.?Apparently passing Co2 over MIG wire is not as 'bad'?Isn't an electric arc 11k F. anyway?
Reply:Well, allow me to butt in. From my limited understanding, tungsten is one of the highest melting point elemental metal around. It's used in light bulbs (incandescent) as the filament. In a completely inert atmosphere, there is no real measurable amount of wear on the tungsten from being used. As soon as you mix in c25, you can now liberate 16.5% oxygen content from c25 (25% being co2, 66% of that being liberated as free oxygen once it's ionized and in the arc). Ever break the envelope to a lightbulb? The filament glows extremely bright then burns out. That's the tungsten oxidizing. That gives off fumes, I'm sure. The atmosphere is about 20% oxygen, so running c25 is about 3.5% less harmful to the tungsten than running no shielding gas as far as oxidation goes. Running co2 vs c25 on mig usually lends deeper penetration and more splatter vs c25. That's because the oxygen being released from the co2 aiding in adding heat to the base metal as some of it is oxidized (same as a cutting torch) but mig wire usually has enough deoxidizers present to fix any porosity issues. Iron Oxide is all around you, from the mig welding process it's most likely bound in the silica left from the deoxidizers in the wire. Tungsten oxide not so much. A quick google search didn't turn up much.Miller: 200dx, Bobcat 225, Passport, Powermax 45, Milwaukee: Dry Saw, MagDrill, grinders
Reply:Shortened...see previous post.William McCormick[/quote]The new subs are not steel anymore .AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Originally Posted by n8ghzBack to square one....Argon or Helium for TIG....helium being hotter...in my experience?William said: "You also do not want to breath the fumes from doing, what you did with the CO2 passing over the Tungsten".What about ALL the MIG fab shops who use str8 Co2 instead of 75-25,stargone,etc.?Apparently passing Co2 over MIG wire is not as 'bad'?Isn't an electric arc 11k F. anyway?
Reply:Hmmmmmm very interesting....I wonder what would happen if you used Propane ? Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:That looks like what happened when our gas supplier gave us a bottle of Nitrogen instead of Argon.
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick VLesson here - live and learn!I had a new TIG welder but no argon gas, bottle, or regulator - just small CO2 tanks."Bring your TIG welder over next time you're up my way", said my out-of-town pal.So 200km (120 miles) and a few weeks later, I was in my pal's garage."I just got my bottle filled. let's give her a try."Note: Neither of us had 'tigged' before... but we'd been around it and knew what to expect.Being our 1st time, we went at just 40 amps (electrode negative) on some sheet metal (steel).Arc lite just fine... just like on TV!Over the next say 15 minutes, we each took turns playing... neither of us could lay a bead but then... WTF?Attachment 54229Yeah, the end of my ceramic cup fell off! The electrode was all crapped-up too!Want to see a close up?Attachment 54230Lovely eh? Just lovely!"Hey what's going on?" "Are you sure that gas is argon?""It's 'ArgoShield'.""ArgoShield ! That's like C25 - 75% Argon and 25% CO2. The CO2 is burning up the torch."Ah well... it was fun while it lasted!Lesson = TIG needs inert gas like argon, C25 doesn't cut it!
Reply:luckily when I did this, I didnt do any damage. I got 100% argon and everything was great! lol. good times
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomCo2 gas cools the weld and keeps oxygen away. That is why muffler shops like 75/25 .
Reply:Snoborder88, I had done the math for percentages of oxygen released in c25 in a previous post in this thread. I kinda did the wall-o-text thing, so I don't blame ya for not reading it Miller: 200dx, Bobcat 225, Passport, Powermax 45, Milwaukee: Dry Saw, MagDrill, grinders
Reply:Originally Posted by tryple5soulluckily when I did this, I didnt do any damage. I got 100% argon and everything was great! lol. good times
Reply:Damit...I read this forum a couple of times every week, and If i had just opend this sticky, I could have saved myself months of headachesin march, I upgraded from a 80CF tank to a 250 because I was burning through argon too quickly on aluminum and the following weekend I was planing on grafting a new cab onto my truck and didn't want to run out of argon.Well, I couldn't run a bead to save my life. But I assumed it was just me since I haven't tig'd steel for years. Haven't welded Aluminum since before the bottle switch. Just tried, and you guessed it - oxidizes like crazy. Checked the bottle - 25%CO2. What pisses me off the most is I asked for an upgrade on my current 100% argon bottle, AND I bought green tungsten at the same time. I would assume Airgas would know better. I have never dealt with 25% co2 bottles, nor did I even know it was an accidental option. guess I need to start double checking everything the "experts" at Airgas give me... especially when I pay $300 for a new tank.
Reply:OMGI started to believe that I am just too dense to learn to TIG. At first I thought I found the trick when my used Syncro came with a CO2 tank so I was excited to see that the tiny MIG welder had a bottle that began with Argo something er other.I can't weld worth a **** since my tungsten seems to melt away no matter what I do.You all know that it WAS BOC Argoshield Light. Sounds like Agron just like pit sounds like excrement.I know that it is usually the welder not the weldor but that machine was fighting me. But, in tigger's defence, some moron, who had already read this thread, did hook up that bottle.I'll pony up more $ and see if Argon makes it look more like the demos on the net.I suppose that I now contribute to reason this thread is sticky.Enjoy the laugh.Miller Syncrowave 180SDLincoln WeldPak 100 with gasHandheld Milwaukee BandsawO/A Cutting Torch
Reply:Originally Posted by joedirt1966Welcome back William!
Reply:Hmmm...You know, I tried this with my argon/co2 mix thinking if its good for MIG its good for TIG. No oxygen here. Nope. Just a collossal waste of gas. works for about 1/2 cm then the electrode starts to melt into the torch. At first I thought I had the polarity reversed but doing so just made it ball up and disappear even faster. Wait...C..O-2...AW Dammit! I certainly would like a video of this happening but alas I can't seem to find my tripod to hold the camera!
Reply:I made same mistake with a 75/25 mix,couldnt figure out why i kept burning up my tungsten no matter how low i set amperage.Somebody on another forum squared me away real quick.Funny thing is,a local "shop" swears up & down that you wanna use a 75/25 argon/CO2 mix for Tig.I go to his competitions shop now
Reply:We all learn from our own mistakes and other people's mistakes too!!!!!
Reply:Thanks for your story and pictures. This explains my situation exactly, today I rented another bottle of pure Argon this time and hopefully will improve my mood about tig.
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick JrA similar black carbon steel pillar, was dug up, it was dated back many thousands of years ago. Just some food for the mind. Sincerely,William McCormick
Reply:I almost wet my pants when i fell on the floor laughing looking at the first pics! Looked like a burnt hot dog! I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:That's amazing. You forgot orchestra music piped in from an unknown sourceSent from my SCH-I545 using TapatalkMiller: 200dx, Bobcat 225, Passport, Powermax 45, Milwaukee: Dry Saw, MagDrill, grinders
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeI almost wet my pants when i fell on the floor laughing looking at the first pics! Looked like a burnt hot dog!
Reply:I found a reference to that Civil War "tank" people were chatting about earlier in case anyone is interested. http://landships.activeboard.com/mob...&topic=8027058Not exactly what I was picturing in my head, but still neat.
Reply:turkey tastes good. better than tig welding stainless.. buy some fat turkeys instead of tig welding... just sayin....
Reply:This is why it is good to take a beginning welding class.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder |
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发表于 2021-8-31 15:01:22