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Spot Welding Machine for TIG freshling to pulse or not

Spot Welding Machine for TIG freshling to pulse or not

Welding Automation for TIG freshling to pulse or not

laser Welding Machine for TIG freshling to pulse or not

Welding Automation for TIG freshling to pulse or not

Welding Automation for TIG freshling to pulse or not

Platform Spot Welding Machine for TIG freshling to pulse or not

Platform Spot Welding Machine for TIG freshling to pulse or not

TIG freshling to pulse or not


Tue, 31 Aug 2021 15:29:09 GMT
Hello everybody,To cut a long story short I'll get right to the point.I want to learn to TIG and looking to purchase a machine.No I narrowed down my options down to two models which suit my purposes:1. Miller Diversion 1802. Miller Dynasty 200DXI know the two machines are quite afar from a skill level point. What I'd like to hear is opinions regarding pulse feature (which the Diversion doesn't have).It's said to help with welding thin metals if set correctly. Now thin is relative, in my opinion everything thiner than 16 gauge would fall into this category.For a beginner welder would it be a good thing to start learning with a machine that has the pulse feature from the get go or would it be wiser to start without it and learn how to pulse the pedal and upgrade at a later point?Kind regards and every input is very appreciated.BeanPS: I know there are other machines out there but I feel most drawn to these too. Also Inverter is a necessity due to home usage and lack of power to support a transformer unit and weight (if this wasn't the case I would have gone with the Syncrowave 200)Last edited by Bean Bandit; 02-17-2011 at 09:21 AM.
Reply:I am no expert but I am under the impression that a syncrowave 200 would do fine in a home setting. A lot of guys on here have them. But I am curious to see some other guys that know a heck of a lot more then me say. My opinion is if you can start off affording the machine with a pulse you shouldJerodHypertherm 30Miller Syncrowave 200Millermatic 140and a propane torch and hanger if all else fails
Reply:Thanks for your input.Just to make it clear the Syncrowave is out of the question, partialy due to weight but most importantly due to the electric installation at my house not being able to support it and no sane way to change it.
ReplyTIG freshling to pulse or notets put this in simple perspective.In any industry equipment manufactures are always moving on to the best technology.The development of inverter technology came about from component availability and design concept changes.The inverter system gives you less power consumption, flexibility in operation, and smaller size.  Buy the Miller Dynasty 200DXHave funTom
Reply:Originally Posted by acourtjesterLets put this in simple perspective.In any industry equipment manufactures are always moving on to the best technology.The development of inverter technology came about from component availability and design concept changes.The inverter system gives you less power consumption, flexibility in operation, and smaller size.  Buy the Miller Dynasty 200DXHave funTom
Reply:My understanding is pulse is very nice to have when doing a lot of aluminum. So if you are not planning on that then I wouldn't worry. with that said I always try to get the most machine I can just in case.JerodHypertherm 30Miller Syncrowave 200Millermatic 140and a propane torch and hanger if all else fails
Reply:The Diversion is a good starter machine. But, if you can afford the Dynasty from the get-go, buy it. Not just for the pulser. Balance and frequency control in AC mode is very handy if you ever need to weld aluminum. Diversion has AC, but no adjustments for balance or frequency.  Originally Posted by acourtjesterThe inverter system gives you less power consumption, flexibility in operation, and smaller size.  Buy the Miller Dynasty 200DXHave funTom
Reply:Bean Bandit,Since you seem to be getting some "bad" guidance, thought I should jump in.First off, pulse capability is only one of the advantages of the Dynasty 200 DX vs the Diversion.You'll find pulse useful particularly when welding thin gauge material and especially when welding SS.  Contrary to some "advice" you've received, I almost never use pulse when welding aluminum.  Aluminum likes to be welded hot and fast.  With the thermal conductivity of aluminum, there's generally no need to try to keep your "average amps" down, which is what pulsing does.Pulsing, used in a slow speed mode (.8-1.2 PPS) can be an effective tool for a new tigger to develop his dip timing.Set in a basic mode, the Dynasty 200 DX is no more difficult to learn to tig with.  ISome other advantages to the Dynasty vs Diversion include:Higher amp output/duty cycleAbility to adjust your frequency (higher freq = tighter arc)Ability to adjust your AC balance (percentage of time the machine spends in DC-/DC+)Ability to adjust your preflow and postflow of covering gas.Standard torch disconnects.Stick weld capabilityMultiple wave patters in AC welding.And many more.Bottom line:IF YOU CAN AFFORD THE DYNASTY 200 DX, BUY IT.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
ReplyTIG freshling to pulse or notbviously I was wrong with my statement on welding aluminum. No need to be a a$$ about it sundownJerodHypertherm 30Miller Syncrowave 200Millermatic 140and a propane torch and hanger if all else fails
Reply:Not being an a$$.Just get a little ticked off with people posting up BS on subjects they don't have a clue about.Posting "bad info" is worse than posting "no info".Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIINot being an a$$.Just get a little ticked off with people posting up BS on subjects they don't have a clue about.Posting "bad info" is worse than posting "no info".
Reply:You don't need PULSE people. It is a gimmic to make you look like a good welder.IF you were going to be doing automated welding with a welding positioner and auto wire feed tube for the TIG then get it.Learn to TIG weld correctly first. You can add on a PULSER unit later if you want to.A Syncrowave 250 (analog) does NOT HAVE pulse and it is still the best TIG machine ever made.LEARN TO TIG WELD then think about gimmics and toys.LEARN TO TIG WELDLEARN TO TIG WELDLEARN TO TIG WELDSee the younger guys YOU grew up with computers you are used to pushing a button and getting what you want with no effort. All the companies are playing you.LEARN TO WELDLast edited by Donald Branscom; 02-17-2011 at 02:41 PM.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:MY Miller Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner DOES HAVE PULSE, and I use it.Yea, I learned tig on an old Linde Heli-Arc welder, but I haven't been living under a rock for the last 50 years.There really have been some TECHNOLOGY IMPROVEMENTS.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Tough decision fer sureDynasty 200DX package with Foot Pedal = $3,515.00Diversion 180 = $1,680.00(Cyberweld prices)difference of $1,835.00of course these are 2 completely different class machines with respect to their Functions but really, do you need all that the Dynasty has to offer to justify the $1,835.00 increase in expenditure?I've actually been thinking about this lately as I don't use all of the functions on my TA185.Might just put it up on CL since I just don't use it much anyway and when I feel the need to Tig again.. probably buy a Diversion.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
ReplyTIG freshling to pulse or notonald, the horse and buggy was a great thing at one point too.  But now, we have the car.  Maybe we should all go back to having a stable full of expensive horses.If the decision is between the two of those, buy the Dynasty, hands down.  You can learn to TIG without pulse with the Dynasty just fine.  Merely turn it off.  But, once you are proficient, there are plenty of times that it is quite useful, and you can't turn it back on with the Diversion.Really though, the Dynasty would be sold to me on other bases first, though.  Standard torch connections will be a biggie, as is the stick welding capability, and finally the higher amperage/duty cycle.  If you are planning on doing anything halfway serious with this (which I would assume so, given you are considering the Dynasty), these would be worth the money in and of themselves (at least to me).  The frequency and AC balance adjustments are just icing on the cake, and yes, shouldn't really be used while learning, but afterward can be very useful.I would also look at the TA-185, as a good machine between the two.  I have one, and aside from not having enough capacity (what can I say, it is a 185 amp machine), I have no complaints with it.  It has most of the same features as the Dynasty (AC balance and freq. adjust, pulse, stick option, etc.), with exception to the 115 volt input power option.  For me, that wasn't a big deal, as the machine hasn't left the shop once since being purchased.  However, the price on it has gone up recently (from 2219 - 2700, IOC prices), so it may not be worth it anymore.Who is John Galt?
ReplyTIG freshling to pulse or notnly bad thing about a dynasty is trying to resell them.. Yes it will sell- but at the peril of ~$1000-$1500 off new price.Could probably resell a diversion 180 for ~$1200Personally, if i had that kind of budget, i'd be looking at the esab 2200i ac/dc for $2900ish.  More power and cheaper than a dynasty.http://www.bakersgas.com/ESA0460150883.htmlLast edited by Matt922; 02-17-2011 at 05:58 PM.
Reply:Matt922,I think if you do your homework, you'll find just the opposite to be true.Right now, that's why most people just go ahead and buy new.  The used (especially those with blue lightning) are selling very close to new price.  This post just set off my BS alarm.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIMatt922,I think if you do your homework, you'll find just the opposite to be true.Right now, that's why most people just go ahead and buy new.  The used (especially those with blue lightning) are selling very close to new price.  This post just set off my BS alarm.
Reply:Originally Posted by Matt922only bad thing about a dynasty is trying to resell them.. Yes it will sell- but at the peril of ~$1000-$1500 off new price.Could probably resell a diversion 180 for ~$1200Personally, if i had that kind of budget, i'd be looking at the esab 2200i ac/dc for $2900ish.  More power and cheaper than a dynasty.http://www.bakersgas.com/ESA0460150883.html
ReplyTIG freshling to pulse or notynasty 200DX, hands down.Buy American, or don't whine when you end up on the bread line.
Reply:I say go for the Dynasty but it's not my money .You don't NEED a pulser to tig weld Al. I would recommend learning to do it without. You need to learn how the material acts while welding, it's not like steel. A foot pedal is a good idea. To those of you that think it's just a gimmick. Good for you, pulsed tig has its places and that doesn't change just because you don't think so.
Reply:I say I have never regretted buying a top quality tool -- especially if I expected to use it quite a biton a regular basis.  but I might be biased ... ( my dynasty should be in next week ! )I learned to weld on a 1940's miller stick welder that the cables were so frayed that I did more weldingacross the cables than the work and it shocked me every other weld !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  !!!!!!So do I appreciate a quality performing product ?   like being a millionaire !TimPS  how many times over the years have I spent 8 hours fixing a tool to do a very important 10 minuite job ....NOTHING better than just hit the on switch and get right into the meat of the job !If the price difference is not stinging you too much ... go for the Dyn.( would love the Dyn. 350 but WAY over my pay grade !)Last edited by jethro; 02-19-2011 at 01:13 AM.
Reply:I found high frequency pulsing to be of benefit in some scenarios on aluminum.  IME, 300Hz pulsing with a 60Hz AC frequency provides a noticeably "stiffer" (more directional) arc than no pulsing with 60Hz AC frequency.  This can be useful in some situations on a machine that doesn't allow adjustable AC frequency (on mine AC frequency is "fixed" at 60Hz.)  The high frequency pulsing ability makes up for not being able to adjust AC freq in some scenarios.  For situations where I am not needing to run the machine over about 75%-80% output capacity (because pulsing needs a *reduction* of average current to operate, when you are using it, you aren't running the machine "flat out"), I will dial in some high frequency pulsing in situation where I want a more concentrated arc, with more directional control / deeper penetration / narrower HAZ.
Reply:You don't need no steeenkin' pulse..I don't have it nor need it.Learn to weld with out it..You will be MUCH better off.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Thanks everyone for posting your opinions and thoughts.I also posted this on the Miller forum and got a similar response. Although there's been slightly more support for the Diversion.So my personal conclusion is I'll go with the Dynasty IF I can find a demo/refurbished/cheaper unit as although I would be able to splash out the money it would be quite a hit and other things would need to be delayed. Else I'll get the Diversion 180 (footcontrol is included there so that will be my limited pulse feature) and improve my skill as good as I can and upgrade in 2 years when I live in another country.Thanks everybodyPS: if someone hears/sees a good offer for a cheaper than new Dynasty PLEASE let me know as I need to get the unit shipped from the US to Europe before the end of march.agreed.  Trying to learn to tig with pulse is kind of like never taking the training wheels off your bicycle.  It is possible, but in my humble experience you miss out on some of the fundamentals of heat control and instead you become proficient in the intricacies of using a pulser.  As stated however, this for me would not be the deciding factor between these two machines.  the dynasty has far better waveform control pre and post flow and advanced squarewave control.  these are part of being a proficient tig welder in today's world.  If you want to go old school, just hook up a tig torch with gas valve to yer old ac/dc 225 buzz box.  hang out at 60hz for a while and then try them both.  guarantee you will be a better weldor for it.
Reply:Originally Posted by Brand XThere is no aluminum pulse with that unit. I tried one, but it did not have a foot control, and only a button. I didn't get a good read into how that machine really welds, I did not like the layout on changing the settings, but if you owned one, you would get use to it. The extra amps is welcome though. Being Swedish, they are good quality units. The Dynasty is pretty proven now, and has some nice wave shaping abilities over the older 200 models.
Reply:Bean, if you're looking for a good used/demo type unit, give Larry Burross a call (or PM him here - his name is weldersales).Applied Equipment, Inc.2515 Cartwright St.Dallas, Tx 75212214-630-9353 phone214-630-9354 fax888-630-9353 toll-free214-577-9353 cell786-629-9353 computeremail: [email protected]: weldersalesMiller Dynasty 200DXMillermatic 210 w/ Spoolmate 3035Hypertherm Powermax 380JD Squared Model 32Multiple fabrication tools & equipmentFull Powder Coating Setup
Reply:Originally Posted by con_fuse9I'm not sure about the aluminum pulse.  The TA34 version list pulse for both AC and DC TIG welding - they list two pulse modes, a low frequency and a high frequency (called micro pulse)  The high freq is in a 'hidden menu'.  But what is intriguing about the ESAB is the weight.  I guess its mostly plastic but they list 15lbs for the water cooler (and 33 for the main unit).  Makes for a portable, water cooled TIG.  On the con side: No 110V, some weird connectors (proprietary ESAB?) and a few other curiosities.  Probably better to get the Miller.  In my opinion, the lack of 110V makes it non-portable.  My extension cord weighs more that it!Oh and the ESAB rep that frequents this board won't respond to PM (hint).
Reply:I believe there is an add on aftermarket pulser for the diversion
Reply:I'm a new welder, basically self taught. I build custom motorcycles in my spare time and got fed up with relying on other guys when I needed to have brackets and such welded on, so I went out and got a TIG machine. I originally practiced on the pedal, but quickly realized that in real life welding for what I'm doing, the pedal was a PIA so I started using the torch switch. IMO pulse is a great tool when working in tight spaces on thinner material, and I wouldn't want to be without it. One thing I have learned for sure is that everyone has their own way of doing things when it comes to TIG, so take everything with a grain of salt. Just because a dude has been welding for 6,000 years doesn't mean what works for him will work for you. Having said all that, I say get the pulse, it's a nice feature to have, and like anything else, if you buy the most modern equipment you can afford, you'll be fine.
Reply:I didn't bother to read every reply. But I'll go ahead and post a reply with actual experience.I have heard that the pulsing option makes a not experienced welder look experienced. I learned to tig on a basic Hobart Tigmate. No pulsing or any fancy stuff. Just a foot pedal. My welds look fine. I JUST got a Lincoln Precision tig 185. It has the pulsing option. I used the pulse just today on aluminum. MAN I CAN SAY I SEE NO DIFFERENCE IN THE WELD.  If I were to go out and look at the welds I was screwing around with today, I MYSELF would not be able to tell  which ones were done with pulse and which ones were not. I have read that it is great for thin stuff like sheet metal. That way you don't overheat the metal. It regulates it more. But I thought that's why we learned to use a foot pedal?
Reply:Having owned several tig machines I would go with the newest technology. You won't be a beginner for ever and that machine will be what makes you a star.  Just remember that regardless of what tig machine you buy Practice is what makes things happen......     Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Cheers for all the replies - I'll go with the basics for now and upgrade later if needed. One reason being to learn it properly, the other when I upgrade in two or so years technology has advanced once again and I'll be more experienced to choose a machine that suits my needs exactly.Now the only thing left is trying to get a reply form the sellers, as I'm getting the feeling they (Miller) couldn't care less about me wanting one of theire machines. Which is a real pity as all that top notch service everyone is ravibg about, doesn't seem to apply for non US.
Reply:Bean,Miller doesn't "sell" directly to consumers.  That's why they have distributors/dealers.I suspect it has more to do with "how you're asking" rather than the fact that "they don't want to sell".If you're approaching them with the "I want to buy the machine cheap approach", then you'll probably get quite a few "cold shoulders".PS.  You may want to contact BR Welders in White Plains, MD (e-mail or their website) and tell them what you're looking for.  When they give you a price, that's what they'll sell it for.  I've found them to be "very responsive".Last edited by SundownIII; 02-23-2011 at 01:32 PM.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Where in Europe are you?I doubt I would spend the $ on a Diversion that needs to be shipped to Europe- For just learning Tig, I would look for something LocalEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:I think it may be what your asking Miller as to why you get no responce.A few  years back i e-mailed Miller with some questions and the gave me a reply promptly.
Reply:No need to jump to conclusions here sundown, as you're wring. I'm aware that miller doesn't sell directly but should be able to supply me with a list of retailers/distributors in my area.Meanwhile got hold of one distributor in europe after several calls all over the place. Which is tiresome considering a modern market. (I worked long enough in this market to know what respojse time means - one week for a simple look up question is not good. Oh and I checked the millerpage and found the itw link which was useless as well through email)Concernig the cheap as possible is not my intention but I want a fair price to put it in perspective I got two quotes for the ESAB Caddy 2200i TA34 (within 24h), both from official retailers and the price difference is a whooping 83% for tge exact same item both CE certified and all with same service and warranty offer. Anyway this discussion is going way of topic and I apologize for ranting about this matter in the first place as it doesn't belong in here.
Reply:I'm from Switzerland but live all over the world and I didn't want to import one from the states if not neccessary, hence why I was looking for a local retailer.Anyway this thread helped me a lot and I thank everyone who shared his oppinion and experience with me. Over and out.
Reply:as small as some of the suit case welders are you could buy it here and carry it on board a plane.....I don't know about now with all the terrorist crap but when I was at Siemens we had to go to different countries to do emergency repairs on cancer machines and we used the suit case welders exclusively....Probably get arrested for having a BOMB now......lol  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:I just went to airgas and ordered a diversion 180.I would have got the 165 but I like the mvp feature..Dynastys looked real nice , but I can save for one while I use my diversion..The quote was about 1775 $ and should be here friday or monday..I CANT WAIT
Reply:Originally Posted by B_Cas small as some of the suit case welders are you could buy it here and carry it on board a plane.....I don't know about now with all the terrorist crap but when I was at Siemens we had to go to different countries to do emergency repairs on cancer machines and we used the suit case welders exclusively....Probably get arrested for having a BOMB now......lol
Reply:The only time i turn pulse on is if the WPS Requires it other then that it stays offMiller Xmt 350Lincoln Ln-25Ahp 200xSmith Gas Mixer AR/HTig is my Kung FuThrowing down dimes and weaving aboutInstagram http://instagram.com/[email protected]

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