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whats with the astronomically high amperages??


Tue, 31 Aug 2021 15:26:28 GMT
Ok... I have been welding for a living for about 12 years, have an associates degree in welding technology from Penn State and consider myself to be an expert in all types of welding... especially stick  (SMAW).I spend quite a bit of time researching welding online and for a long time i have noticed people claiming that they are welding at extremely high amperage.  For example, somebody will post a picture of a joint they welded with a claimed 1/8" 7018 at 140amps!!  or 3/32" at over 110 amps!!How is this possible???  I have welded with every welding machine under the sun, every brand of rod, and every type of steel.... and I have NEVER been able to weld with 1/8" 7018 at more than 130 amps MAX.  Any more than that and it runs like crap, undercuts, spatters like crazy, and just looks WAY too hot. I run 1/8" 7018 between min of 105 and max of 125 amps.So what is the deal with these outrageously high claimed amperages?? I dont buy it.I have worked around tons of other welders, all of which run similar amps as me.So what gives???Steve1946 Shorthood  -  1958 Blackface  -  1962 Redface  -  1967 Redface  -  1968 Redface -  1970 Blackface  -  2005 300D -  2008 Vantage 300  -and a ton of other welding stuff
Replywhats with the astronomically high amperages??erhaps INDICATED amps aren't "amps at the weld", especially over long welding lead runs?
Reply:AC or DC and exactly what 7018 rods? Lincoln lists Excaliber 7018 at 90-150 on DC and 100-160 on AC for 1/8". Lincolns Jetweld 78 MR 7018 is listed at 110-160 on DC and 120-170 on AC for 1/8". I'd gues Lincoln feels you can run them at those amps if they list them as such.http://assets.lincolnelectric.com/as...78MR/c110g.pdf.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by farmallPerhaps INDICATED amps aren't "amps at the weld", especially over long welding lead runs?
Reply:I have considered the same thing, but for one, I have welded with countless machines with short 15' leads up to 150' leads and I don't notice a difference.On my mobile welding rigs I am running 100' and 150' leads (2/0)....Steve1946 Shorthood  -  1958 Blackface  -  1962 Redface  -  1967 Redface  -  1968 Redface -  1970 Blackface  -  2005 300D -  2008 Vantage 300  -and a ton of other welding stuff
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick V1/8th 7018 with 130 amps max is only 10 amps (7%) off the 140 amps = hardly astronomically higher
Reply:Here is a recent example.... Originally Posted by TozziWeldingDon't be scared of the puddle, over time you will make the molten metal your bitch.7018 1/8" all the way out 140amps or so in position welded with an antique Idealarc 250 if you must know.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmallPerhaps INDICATED amps aren't "amps at the weld", especially over long welding lead runs?
Reply:Originally Posted by pulserThe "Constant Current", DC power supply used for stick welding, does as the name says, it supplies constant current regardless of the added resistance of long leads or poor connections.  With added resistance in the circuit, the voltage output at the power supply must increase in order to push the constant current.
Reply:Originally Posted by C6.7weldrig. I run 1/8" 7018 between min of 105 and max of 125 amps.So what is the deal with these outrageously high claimed amperages?? I dont buy it.I have worked around tons of other welders, all of which run similar amps as me.So what gives???
Reply:Just thought it funny that a guy (OP) who "doesn't have time to research a dry cut saw using the search feature" because he's working 100 hr weeks, now has time to b1tch about what amps others are using.Wonder why they publish a range of working amps for 1/8" 7018 as being between 110-160A, if the rod won't work at the higher amp range.Different machines, different welders, different circumstances.  I'm not worrying about "what someone else uses", I'm using what works for me.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Welding is not what i would call a "college" profession but that said after 42 years i have found that no I mean no two machines are the same if made the same time and by the same company. Yes 135-140 is Not too high a amperage to run a 1/8 7018 experience the circumstances the situation all become factors in this.If you were welding in 95 degree weather that would be totally different than welding in-20 degree weather. So I agree with Sundown III DIFFERENT MACHINES OR OTHER FACTORS!! different [email protected]
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIJust thought it funny that a guy (OP) who "doesn't have time to research a dry cut saw using the search feature" because he's working 100 hr weeks, now has time to b1tch about what amps others are using.Wonder why they publish a range of working amps for 1/8" 7018 as being between 110-160A, if the rod won't work at the higher amp range.Different machines, different welders, different circumstances.  I'm not worrying about "what someone else uses", I'm using what works for me.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmallPerhaps INDICATED amps aren't "amps at the weld", especially over long welding lead runs?
Reply:Who cares?
Reply:Originally Posted by con_fuse9Sorry, Amps are amps.  Over long lines you get a voltage drop, so the volts at the machine won't match the welding voltage.Imagine a hose.  You put a gallon of water in, you will get a gallon out (unless the hose expands).   Voltage is like water pressure.  You might have a pressure drop when the water is flowing.
Reply:I couldn't even tell you what I am running off my old SA-200 or SA-250. I just dial it where it feels good, on my Trailblazer I run AROUND 140 up or down from there. The old Lincoln I welded that pipe with is 20 years older than I am, so who knows the pointer could be off. I run with what feels good for me That is with 1/8" 7018, for 3/32" 7018 and 1/8" 6010 I run between 90-110 for them both, that way I can root with the 6010 and cap with the 7018 without going back to adjust the machine.Last edited by TozziWelding; 06-16-2011 at 03:59 PM.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Expert = (X) + (Spurt) = (Unknown) + (Drip under Pressue)So I immediately assume any clown referring to themself as an "Expert" to be an "Unknown Drip Under Pressure"Tozzi and the other members have already weighed in, I would have earlier but I could not stop laughing at the Arrogant, Presumptuous nature of an individual who would come on here waving around a (really helpful?) associate degree in "Welding Technology" at us, and question HOW things can be done by others when HE cannot do them himself.Okay, I'm done teasing you - Just had to get that out.3/32" 7018 @ 95 Amps1/8" 7018 @ 135 AmpsBasic settings - Don't care what machine, or length of cable in the circuit.  I adjust from there to get what I want to see and hear.  Some of you over-educated types get hung up on silly little things that REALLY don't matter.Later,Jason
Reply:Just out of curiosity, could a clamp on ammeter be used to compare different machines?  I have seen them used on AC circuits, but don't have one, and don't know if they work the same with DC.Not that it matters, the amp counting fairy isn't going to wack my pee pee if I use too many!
Reply:Originally Posted by daddyJust out of curiosity, could a clamp on ammeter be used to compare different machines?  I have seen them used on AC circuits, but don't have one, and don't know if they work the same with DC.Not that it matters, the amp counting fairy isn't going to wack my pee pee if I use too many!
Reply:Originally Posted by daddyJust out of curiosity, could a clamp on ammeter be used to compare different machines?  I have seen them used on AC circuits, but don't have one, and don't know if they work the same with DC.Not that it matters, the amp counting fairy isn't going to wack my pee pee if I use too many!
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIJust thought it funny that a guy (OP) who "doesn't have time to research a dry cut saw using the search feature" because he's working 100 hr weeks, now has time to b1tch about what amps others are using.:
Reply:.Thanks to all the people who had some good input on this topic... i personally thought it would be a pretty interesting discussion.... Guess not.I am reminded again why I spend very little of my (very limited) off time... on WeldingWeb....Discussion over.Last edited by C6.7weldrig; 06-16-2011 at 09:59 PM.Steve1946 Shorthood  -  1958 Blackface  -  1962 Redface  -  1967 Redface  -  1968 Redface -  1970 Blackface  -  2005 300D -  2008 Vantage 300  -and a ton of other welding stuff
Reply:GOOD BYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ENOUGH SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!wbolden
Reply:Im runnin 5/32 6011 uphill at like 115-120 amps with no problems.Am I too late to put my $0.02 in?? Originally Posted by tenpinsrunning 105 amps with 1/8" 7018 gets the same response from me. Anything under 115 - which is pretty freakin cold - is too cold. 125 amps is the perfect setting. 130 for painted and coated iron.
Reply:I've had guys pick up my stinger and say shil thats way to hot and go to turn it down. You just have to do what works for you. Like the old timers say look at the puddle it will tell you everything you need to now. Could just as well have a 1-10 or a-z and use it for reference only not gospel. See more people running to cold than trying to long arc it to get it to burn.Millermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:Originally Posted by farmshopI've had guys pick up my stinger and say shil thats way to hot and go to turn it down. .
Reply:Originally Posted by Xtreme Fabrication  When the stub is glowing you know you finally got the machine set right for the heat.
Reply:Originally Posted by C6.7weldrigOh god.... not this douche bag again
Reply:Yepper,The ol dusche bag.  That be me.Guess they didn't teach the OP how to run rod in his Associate Degree in Welding Technology class.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:If someone says something cant be done why not try it what ya got to loose.Millermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:I didn't see anyone else taking into consideration the machine the guy was using. It's an old IdealArc 250/250. On those machines you turn a crank and a little indicator moves along a scale marked 100-125-150. Those machines are very common and were mostly sold in the '70s and '80s. I own one now, since it was so cheap ($150) and can run 1/8" rod at 100% duty cycle and is copper wound, unlike the little buzzboxes Miller and Lincoln sell now which are aluminum wound with max 20% duty cycle. Anyway, there is *no* way that scale is accurate. My guess is he probably was using a pretty hot puddle, but probably no more than 125 amps. Can a scale that primitive and old be off by 12%? You bet!metalmagpie
Reply:Since its an old ac stick machine we're talking about here, it is a trivial matter to measure the true RMS current.  Grab one of these, point your video camera at it, and start welding.  You can go back and watch the amp reading and see what you're really welding at.  I've done it.  It's interesting."Great spirits have always encountered violent oppostion from mediocre minds."  --  Albert Einstein
Reply:Many of the latter posts on heat are pretty spot on. The high electrode heat is for increased burn off.Flat or nearly flat position get the right size electrode, bust the knobs off and run deep. No sense in sticking your head in the big cloud trying to make sense of the puddle... by the time you long arc enough to see it you're undercutting.There are times that running 7018 or 7024 at 110amp mig box settings just isn't the way to go.Working in situ the posted welds are OK, in a fab shop with turning rolls it'll be a different story.Matt
Reply:Yes use a clamp on amp meter and voltmeter all our machines are checked daily as part of our qc / qa program for D1.5 bridge work . You would be surprised at the results taken at the weld zone by the arc. Most people run too cold and too small rods and wires , try running twin 5/64 LA-75 at 850 amps 28 volts burning 120 lbs in 12 hrs sub arc.  John
Reply:Originally Posted by C6.7weldrig.Discussion over.
Reply:Originally Posted by C6.7weldrigOk... I have been welding for a living for about 12 years, have an associates degree in welding technology from Penn State and consider myself to be an expert in all types of welding... especially stick  (SMAW).I spend quite a bit of time researching welding online and for a long time i have noticed people claiming that they are welding at extremely high amperage.  For example, somebody will post a picture of a joint they welded with a claimed 1/8" 7018 at 140amps!!  or 3/32" at over 110 amps!!How is this possible???  I have welded with every welding machine under the sun, every brand of rod, and every type of steel.... and I have NEVER been able to weld with 1/8" 7018 at more than 130 amps MAX.  Any more than that and it runs like crap, undercuts, spatters like crazy, and just looks WAY too hot. I run 1/8" 7018 between min of 105 and max of 125 amps.So what is the deal with these outrageously high claimed amperages?? I dont buy it.I have worked around tons of other welders, all of which run similar amps as me.So what gives???
Reply:I love this....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:The man that taught me to weld 7018 always said "run it as hot as you can stand it, then add 10."
Reply:Originally Posted by Pavinsteelmantry running twin 5/64 LA-75 at 850 amps 28 volts burning 120 lbs in 12 hrs sub arc.  John
Reply:Originally Posted by Black WolfThanks for the story, I believe that most of us have one or two like that.X2 on the glowing stub. That is how I was taught.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterI love this....zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by sn0border88The discussion was over as soon as you said you were an "expert on all types of welding."  What kind of discussion did you hope to achieve from there?  You were hoping that somehow everyone else (including myself) who has successfully welded with 7018 at 140+ amps in the past would suddenly realize the error of our ways because you claim to know better?Please, feel free to spend even less time here.
Reply:If you don't want to be ridiculed on a Welding Forum, you might want to stop waving a piece of paper around, and referring to yourself as an "Expert"... It is just SILLY.As far as the amperages go, I am within the manufacturer's specs.  I don't much care if my settings are above yours.  They are not "High"... Just "High" to you.The BB's, Undercut, and Molten Puddle that you cannot control - All relate to Arc Length, Electrode Inclination & Manipulation, and Travel Speed....Basic Welder 101 - Should be second nature to an "Expert" such as yourself.  No?Later,Jason
Reply:I personally would rather run too hot than be one of the guys that runs too cold and welds that cute little 1/4" wide humped up bead that doesn't burn in. Sure you can put a nice look to it but it don't do much.Millermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:Originally Posted by C6.7weldrigWhy is it that people on here always try to twist around everything anyone has to say and try to start an argument... then get in your little cliques and all try to jump in... real cool.  My only reason for stating that i am an "expert" in all types of welding, was just to clarify that i was not some amateur on here asking a question on what amps i should be running.That is all.   What is wrong with stating that you are an expert in welding.... I would say that there are many experts in welding on here... umm,... I never claimed the best welder ever or even remotely close... there are MANY, MANY thousands of people out there that are far better welders that me.  The point of this thread was to ask WHY so many people here claim to be welding at such high amperages.  I wasn't asking what amperage I should be welding at, I know exactly what amperage I personally like to run at to produce nice looking, xray quality welds.What I was hoping for was a discussion about, HOW, and WHY some of you guys are welding at such high amperages, why you feel the need to,  what do you think the benefits of this are and how do you acheive a weld this hot without tons of buckshot spatter all over your steel, undercut, your puddle running all over (when welding anything but flat), overheating of your base metal, an overly large heat affected zone and an crappy looking weld in general.I have had the pleasure to weld with a lot of expert welders, from all over the county and I have never seen any of them weld at these types of amperage... So i am curious if anyone can explain... I am always looking to learn new things.That is the point of this this thread...If anyone wants to share their reasoning on this topic, that would be great... (I will ignore the trolls who are just looking to pick a fight)Thanks,.
Reply:Originally Posted by C6.7weldrigIf anyone wants to share their reasoning on this topic, that would be great... (I will ignore the trolls who are just looking to pick a fight)Thanks,
Reply:Originally Posted by Black WolfIf you don't want to be ridiculed on a Welding Forum, you might want to stop waving a piece of paper around, and referring to yourself as an "Expert"... It is just SILLY.
Reply:C6.7 Welding and all others who are self proclaimed experts.Seriously I suggest you never claim to be an expert; you set yourself up as a target to be discredited.  Once you have been discredited on the smallest most arcane point of knowledge your total  credability is placed in serious doubt.  I suggest you claim to be Knowledgeable, having studied and gained experience with appropriate credentials.I offer three choices: Good, Fast, & Cheap. You may pick two.Hobart AC/DC StikMate LXHarbor Freight AD HoodHarbor Freight Industrial Chop SawDeVilbis 20 Gallon, 5 HP Compressor

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