Hey guys, been fighting with an issue.2009 Dynasty 200dx70 balance, 150hz, 1 second pre flow, 2 second post flow, run the machine at 200 but pedal it100% argon @15-25cfh3/32" Blue(arc zone hybrid), 1% lanthanated tungsten3/32 gas lense and #8 cup. Also tried non gas lense with a #7 cup. Same dealprepped with a 80 gritt flapper wheel dedicated to tungsten1/8" 5052 aluminum, 4043 and 5356 fillerin these pictures it is after 3" of weld. Ive spent quite a bit of time researching and cannot come up with an answer as to why it is so hard on tungsten. I found this related miller article which describes this issue as "nodes" or "cauliflower" but everything Im doing seems to correct...?"Until advanced squarewave technology was developed, operators used pure tungsten for AC applications because the rare earth tungstens, while working great on DC applications, sometimes formed little nodules, similar to the head of a cauliflower, as a result of the additional AC heat."https://www.millerwelds.com/resource...verter-weldingI tried prepping differently and it still got me the same result. From what Ive read there should be no reason for me to step up to 1/8" Tungsten, however I do have the consumables and will try tonight but I am getting quite frustrated. Everything welds fine however Im dressing the tungsten every 6-10" of weld, which is wrong.Thanks,Matthew
Reply:The pictures have been compressed unfortunately but the end of the tungsten looks like cauliflower, and I am getting a yellow ring on the tungsten, I suspected gas flow so I tried different cup setups and flow rates... same issue. Checked for leaks, everything is tight.
Reply:I believe the tungsten for aluminum should have a blunt end and not a point for tiging aluminum, and a sharper point for steel.....Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:You need less preflow .2 seconds and a little more post flow, like 6 seconds. 2% lanthanated or E3 works better. and I would be set at 15 to 18 CFH with a gas lens.www.georgesplasmacuttershop.comPlasma Cutter and Welder Sales and Repairs--Ebay storeTec.Mo. Dealer Consumables for the PT and IPT torch's
Reply:Your post flow is there to protect the tungsten as it is cooling. The rule is a minimum of 8 seconds or 1 seconds for every 10 amps. With only 2 seconds like you have it set at, it is still cooling down and it gets exposed to the atmosphere when it is still glowing orange. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by roadkillbobbI believe the tungsten for aluminum should have a blunt end and not a point for tiging aluminum, and a sharper point for steel.....
Reply:Originally Posted by TJSI never put a flat on mine when doing aluminum. I have tried it and notice no difference whatsoever. To the OP. Agreed you post flow is too short. The purple color is a great indication of that.
Reply:This makes me very happy to read. I will adjust the post flow when I get home from work. Also I've always just ground the tungsten to a point as putting a flat on square isn't always the easiest/most consistent.
Reply:Bump a flat in it first before you sharpen it, then sharpen and leave a desired flat spot. Reason being is when you bump a flat in last it leaves a peeled over burr that is super thin. That burr will burn right up and corode the tip of your tungsten with the high amperage needed for aluminum. I always use a flat spot on anything steel or aluminum over 90amp. Razor sharp points wanna burn right back to a thicker shoulder on the point that can handle the amperage.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Originally Posted by weldeng0403Your post flow is there to protect the tungsten as it is cooling. The rule is a minimum of 8 seconds or 1 seconds for every 10 amps. With only 2 seconds like you have it set at, it is still cooling down and it gets exposed to the atmosphere when it is still glowing orange. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:It's more about how the tip of the tungsten looks than a fixed number of seconds for adjusting post-flow. You want a shiny ball, not a dull one. A tiny bit of heat tinting is going to work fine, but a bit hotter, or a longer run, and you'll have a dull grey or blackened tungsten, not good. A water cooled torch, or larger tungsten will change the setting.SqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A
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Gamble - ? You use 5sec post-flow exclusively for all ferrous and non-ferrous? Our Blue 200DX using Red/Blue tungstens and a #6 gas-shielded cup seems best tuned with 8sec post-flow on most materials. For stainless, we increase to 10sec.Tried reducing our flow, especially on SS, in an effort to ration gas but the tungstens become somewhat darkened."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:I think thats how I ended up in this situation... a friend always complained about his diversion 180 having such a long post flow... I had an option to turn mine down and did, being the cheap prick I can be LOL
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeBump a flat in it first before you sharpen it, then sharpen and leave a desired flat spot. Reason being is when you bump a flat in last it leaves a peeled over burr that is super thin. That burr will burn right up and corode the tip of your tungsten with the high amperage needed for aluminum. I always use a flat spot on anything steel or aluminum over 90amp. Razor sharp points wanna burn right back to a thicker shoulder on the point that can handle the amperage.
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleThat's a bull**** rule. 4-5 seconds is all you need
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weldermike - stowed that "first flat, then prep" tip of your's buddy. Excellent reco! "Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by weldeng0403Your post flow is there to protect the tungsten as it is cooling. The rule is a minimum of 8 seconds or 1 seconds for every 10 amps. With only 2 seconds like you have it set at, it is still cooling down and it gets exposed to the atmosphere when it is still glowing orange. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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ut me in the camp that says about 1 second of postflow for every 20 amps of welding current as a general rule. Yes, even with a water cooled torch...Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
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ost flow also has alot to do with duration of welding.
Reply:I would say you have some funky tungsten. Like said 2% lanthanated, E3, or even plain old 2% thoriated will season better. Do you really know what your gas flow is? You might want to invest in a downstream portable gas flow checker to confirm. I think you will be shocked at the initial surge which could also be contaminating your tungsten on arc start. I get mine at netwelding.com but here is an image that CK sells. Same manufacturer. http://www.netwelding.com/MIG_Flow%20Rate-Chart.htmLast edited by shovelon; 11-09-2015 at 02:12 PM.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:I like to step on the pedal with the torch away from the work piece then move to the work area and start welding, just to get rid of that initial surge. I don't have pre flow options, I'm just used to doing it. Try it both ways on a few quick tacks and check your tungsten in between. Shovelon gave some good advise.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:what are your thoughts on grinding the tungsten? I use a dedicated standard fine grinding wheel for them, or do you think a diamond wheel would work better? contamination ? smooth finish on tungsten? and grind towards the point?Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:I like a dedicated diamond wheel, it only makes a minimal difference when welding when both ground the same, but the best feature is super quick perfect results in seconds without hardly any heat build up. Those little suckers get red hot real quick when you dilly dally with them. Yes point up into th wheel, and never hold it in a way that it could get shot through your hand.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:thankyou..guess its time to buy a diamond wheel...suggestions on grit and size?Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:Mike - diamond wheels are awesome. Recently ran a few tungstens through a heavy-duty Piranha IIs. Not ours. Wicked fast, but also crazy $cratch. Those boxes cost close to a new Miller 211 Inverter. Ha!"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-GyorgyiI know Kai, mad expensive. Bob I would go as fine as possible. The wheel I use was intended for a surface grinder. I've been using it for probably close to 3yrs and still looks and performs like new. Definitely worth the money to me. I had to make a bushing for the arbor to make it fit its dedicated 6inch grinder. That's where you will save some moolah. Find a new one through Mc Masters or one of those companies and just be sure you can make a bushing for it to adapt it to whatever you will put it on.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:One more thing that I do and would like to share, and this is just me, nothing is written in stone, I'm a self taught welder with 25yrs experience and hold a few certs that I got on my own and work as a union welder, so I go from experience with what works fo me. Tungstens can start looking fudgie after a lot of use and leave a false impression that they need to be dressed up. I constantly will put my torch up to a light and get a silohete view of it, and that will tell me what needs to be done, this one looked iffy, but was obviously fine. Just a tip from a idiot I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
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ots of good info being posted in here! Very nice to see
Reply:A few questions for the group and the OP since I have a 200DX and weld aluminum quite a bit. I am teaching myself so hopefully that explains the ignorance. Why are you running 200 amps and the pedal floored if you are only doing 1/8" material? I usually run 150 or so to weld that thickness using a 3/32 E3 tungsten. Am I wrong or any suggestions?I step up to a 1/8" E3 tungsten when I weld 1/4" or greater aluminum, plus since I have 100% medical grade helium I use that. I have 8 bottles of Pure Helium that we got at work for a different reason. Since that reason went away, I use the HE for welding.Millermatic 252 MIGMiller Dynasty 200DX TIGMiller Spectrum 625 PlasmaAltas 12x36 Metal LatheBridgeport Milling Machinewww.psacustomcreations.com
Reply:Originally Posted by psacustomcreationsA few questions for the group and the OP since I have a 200DX and weld aluminum quite a bit. I am teaching myself so hopefully that explains the ignorance. Why are you running 200 amps and the pedal floored if you are only doing 1/8" material? I usually run 150 or so to weld that thickness using a 3/32 E3 tungsten. Am I wrong or any suggestions?I step up to a 1/8" E3 tungsten when I weld 1/4" or greater aluminum, plus since I have 100% medical grade helium I use that. I have 8 bottles of Pure Helium that we got at work for a different reason. Since that reason went away, I use the HE for welding.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonYou are running the weld with helium. Of course you can run lower amps. However the conventional wisdom is that you would need max amps to get the puddle started, then back off the pedal as the weldment heats up. That is what remote current control is all about.
Reply:You could even hit 1/8" AL with 230 amps
Reply:Originally Posted by ManoKaiMike - diamond wheels are awesome. Recently ran a few tungstens through a heavy-duty Piranha IIs. Not ours. Wicked fast, but also crazy $cratch. Those boxes cost close to a new Miller 211 Inverter. Ha!
Reply:Originally Posted by psacustomcreationsA few questions for the group and the OP since I have a 200DX and weld aluminum quite a bit. I am teaching myself so hopefully that explains the ignorance. Why are you running 200 amps and the pedal floored if you are only doing 1/8" material? I usually run 150 or so to weld that thickness using a 3/32 E3 tungsten. Am I wrong or any suggestions?I step up to a 1/8" E3 tungsten when I weld 1/4" or greater aluminum, plus since I have 100% medical grade helium I use that. I have 8 bottles of Pure Helium that we got at work for a different reason. Since that reason went away, I use the HE for welding.
Reply:Originally Posted by TJSSo you actually get your dynasty to start an arc with 100% helium. I never could on my 300DX, I always had to induce some argon into the mix. I even set different start parameters too. I do not however have a blue lightning model. Maybe that is the difference.
Reply:I have a Y block set up where I tie the agon and helium regulators together. I also have a cheapie glass fuel filter to try an stir things up. It does work great when I induce both argon and helium. It just won't start an arc with pure helium.www.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
Reply:Originally Posted by TJSI have a Y block set up where I tie the agon and helium regulators together. I also have a cheapie glass fuel filter to try an stir things up. It does work great when I induce both argon and helium. It just won't start an arc with pure helium.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonYou could try increasing your arc start parameters a bit. I have found the non`blue lightning machines start easier with pure helium. Blending in maybe 10% argon will help from what I found. I did actually run some DC straight welds with 4043 at a 50/50 ratio, but it also starts getting difficult to feed wire. Absolute minimum helium is 25% with high speed pulse kicked in to break up the oxide layer. Actually perhaps engaging the high speed pulse may encourage your arc to start. Sure does with pure argon.
Reply:Hmmmm I read most of the replies and the "Cauliflower" look happens for me when I run a large tungsten at a low amp setting.you mentioned 200 amps and for me im still at 3/32 Blue 2% Lanthinated or even Red 2% thoriated if I dont have any Lantinated....I hardly ever get up to over 120 HRz. As far as sharpening the tungsten I have found too large of a flat spot creates that Cauliflower issue.... Unless you have a very tight space to lay a bead I can't see anything above 120 and most of the time 100 HRz will work fine.... you didnt say what the actual need was for that narrowing of the arc? Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Bill, abbreviation for Hertz is "Hz" sorry couldn't stand you making that error any longer. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:Ok........ Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Seems like Oscar is the go to guy for technical info But has yet too post some projects
Reply:Originally Posted by motolife313Seems like Oscar is the go to guy for technical info But has yet too post some projects
Reply:Originally Posted by TJSThanks Terry. I apprecite the insight. Got any start parameters to share. Not that I run Helium all the time it just would be cool to lock it in to my gray matter.Thanks.T.J.
Reply:I read books sometimes......Last edited by B_C; 11-15-2015 at 11:43 AM. Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:weird it says it accepts my computer file picture but it doesnt show up? Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by B_Cweird it says it accepts my computer file picture but it doesnt show up?
Reply:The post flow fixed my issue with the tungsten, much happier!
Reply:I have learned over the years that reading the tungsten is as importent as reading the puddle.www.georgesplasmacuttershop.comPlasma Cutter and Welder Sales and Repairs--Ebay storeTec.Mo. Dealer Consumables for the PT and IPT torch's
Reply:Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
