I have been wanting/needing a slip roller for years. So after watching and never finding the exact one I need I decided to build. I picked up the tube over a month ago and finally picked up the slug/axle material just the other day and did some more work. This will not be a fast build what so ever. It is being done in my free time which I don't get much of and as I find and gather materials.Everything up till this point has been found in the scrap yard. I feel there won't be much in this project that doesn't come from the scrap yard. 9' 3"idx4"od tube.Cutting it up.Yesterday I cut and turned up the axles/slugs for one side of all the rollers. Pressed and welded them in. These will later be turned to size for bushings and gears and whatnot.Two passes will suffice.Stay tuned for next months update. lol12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
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ooks good and I know how these type projects for oneself go so I've earmarked the calendar to check your progress on Halloween 2016......SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
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id your lathe dictate the length of the rolls? How did you center the slugs or will you turn them round or does it matter if there run round?
Reply:Originally Posted by tapwelderDid your lathe dictate the length of the rolls? How did you center the slugs or will you turn them round or does it matter if there run round?
Reply:If you need some time on a longer bed lathe, my monarch is 6' between centers....Nice project, will be fun to see how it all comes together.
Reply:Originally Posted by Pugs_If you need some time on a longer bed lathe, my monarch is 6' between centers....Nice project, will be fun to see how it all comes together.
Reply:You had me at "scrapyard" bro!Arcon Workhorse 300MSPowcon 400SMTPowcon SM400 x 2Powcon SM3001968 SA200 Redface1978 SA250 DieselMiller Super 32P FeederPre 1927 American 14" High Duty LatheK&T Milwaukee 2H Horizontal MillBryan
Reply:Beautiful welds, good luck with the project. Yes the Atlas is going to hate you but it's getting the job done.
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ooks really nice VPT, is this going to be a simple pyramid roll or are you shooting for a "slip roll" type of machine? I have built 2 sets of rolls over my career and in both cases they were essentially "pyramid" style rolls with the 2 bottom rolls being "driven" and the top roller being a free roller. This allowed me to include a way to provide for a drop-down end so that you could use it as a slip. I'll see if I can find a picture, checked on this computer and have decided that it must be on my work computer. I'll try to find it and post it up. If you are doing a drop-down top roller it might provide some ideas. Good luck and best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Thanks everyone!Aevald, it will be a pinch/slip roller.12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
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ook forward to seeing it as you process. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Hi, just wondering if on the commercial machines the rollers are solid or hollow like these. I always assumed that they would be solid but I am probably wrong.Anyway can't wait to see this finished, what is the maximum thickness you plan to do with this and will it be motorised or driven with a handle?Thanks
Reply:Hello VPT, here are a couple of photos of a set of rolls that I built for a local fabrication shop a number of years ago. These are 5 foot across and have 6" solid shaft rollers. The 2 bottom shafts are driven and the top roller is free-running. One end of the rolls flips down after removing a retaining bolt that holds the frame to the end of the shaft through a bearing. Here are a couple of pics:Good luck and best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:That is a pretty stout looking roller! Thanks for sharing the pics and info!Forgot the camera in the shop, pics will be later. Couple days ago I made up 6 slugs and pressed two into each roller at an equal distance from the ends and each other to "brace" the tube int eh center from collapsing (Thanks MJD for the tip!). I also turned up the three "other ends" for the tubes and pressed them in as well but did not get around to welding the yet.The bushings came in the mail today. They are 3" long right now (3 of them). My initial thought was to cut them in half to have all three but would 1.5" be enough bearing surface area? Or should I keep them longer and look for more? I suppose what lube is used would make a difference here. Grease or oil?Been working long days lately so haven't been working on the rollers. Told you this will take awhile. 12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:That is a heavy duty roller. Thanks again VPT for taking the time to make up the brass " slugs" , they are almost too nice for their intended use.
Reply:Originally Posted by M J DThat is a heavy duty roller. Thanks again VPT for taking the time to make up the brass " slugs" , they are almost too nice for their intended use.
Reply:I asked the question over on WW and I am curious what the minds here have to say as well. Just for conversation how could a guy inject fluid into the tubes to a pressure of say 2000psi and then seal it off?I grabbed the camera, only had a few pics of the slugs on it.12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:Would a grease fitting take that high of a pressure?
Reply:That is a really good question!12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:A lot of grease guns claim 8-10,000 psi, max force. BTW the slugs worked good, welded around them. Had to make a 1" hole in the center for them to come out. A little precision die grinder work, and all was good.
Reply:Originally Posted by M J DA lot of grease guns claim 8-10,000 psi, max force. BTW the slugs worked good, welded around them. Had to make a 1" hole in the center for them to come out. A little precision die grinder work, and all was good.
Reply:No, I have a smart phone problem, its smarter than me. They make an injecter for putting light oil in a fitting to clear it.
Reply:While the grease gun is capable of supplying that mush pressure, most zerks will leak badly. Think about it, just a tin little bit of steel lip holding that ball in there, put that much force behind it and it typically will just blow the lip out somewhere, ball might stay in but it wont seal against pressure.I'm thinking its more hassle than its worth to try and put pressure in the tubes. If the tubes bending becomes a big problem then just rebuild the tubes out of heavier walled tubing or higher grade. With discs down inside the tube you should of already taken care of alot of the problem of distortion under pressure so I myself wouldn't worry about putting oil in under pressure.The super calendars in the papermill in Biron have a hydraulic roll to control the profile of the paper from one edge to the other, but from what I understand of them (dad was super operator for many years) they have actual hydraulic cylinders (mulitple) inside of the tube to change the shape.Last edited by Pugs_; 11-05-2015 at 09:14 PM.
Reply:Hello VPT, bag the grease/oil filling thought. Even if you pressurize it it won't prevent the roll from deforming. You would need to fill it with something that would harden and be hard enough not to deform/crack/etc. when the outer shell was subjected to anything that "would" deform it. Anything that would keep it from deforming would offset the cost so badly that you could afford to go out and purchase solid shafting for less money and actually have something to show for it.Think in terms of a hydraulic cylinder, if you stroked the cylinder out and let it come up against the pressure relief valve so that it had 2500# of pressure or so on it and then smacked the barrel of the cylinder with a sledge hammer you would still be able to dent it and the oil pressure wouldn't take the dent back out. Not trying to be a smart azz here, just trying to save you some time, grief, and money. Best regards, AllanaevaldHow about these? http://ph.parker.com/us/en/high-pres...rease-fittingsI would rather not have to build these rollers again. I could always look for an epoxy or something to fill the tubes with too. Its just that pressure will not only help stop crushing but it would help keep the tubes strait as well like a gun drill.12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:I didn't know it was the roller rolls, what about babbit?
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTHow about these? http://ph.parker.com/us/en/high-pres...rease-fittingsI would rather not have to build these rollers again. I could always look for an epoxy or something to fill the tubes with too. Its just that pressure will not only help stop crushing but it would help keep the tubes strait as well like a gun drill.
Reply:How bout filling them with concrete? Would it shrink enough when it dried to be ineffective?
Reply:Could try hydraulic cement
Reply:The "other ends" have been welded in. I started in on turning down the ends for the bushing and turned the face of one roller so far. It turned out nice and smooth! I have been watching ebay and trying to figure out gears. I know the sizes I want but am having a hard time matching up gear teeth/pitch so they will mesh with each other.12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:Hello VPT, check out Boston Gear, I am pretty sure that if it's gears you are after, that you can find the appropriate blanks there. They will often come with very minimal bores that you can open up to the size you need and then have keyed if that is your approach. Or you could bore them for bushings, bearings, etc. It is definitely more cost effective than having a shop cut them for you. You can also generally "engineer" their particular offerings into your design. Good luck and best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:I think Epoxy Granite is what you are looking for. Allot of people fill machinery castings with it and even build castings out of it. With it there would be no need for the middle slugs though. This site has a good description of the process.Millermatic 251Century 180 migSpectrum 625 Syncrowave 250DX
Reply:For what it's worth, used steel shots for shot blasting when wet get rusted and they harden like concrete, just trying to remove it from an old blaster and i broke a few bits on my air hammer. The kind of surprise i did not expect when i contracted the job...experience they say!
Reply:As I was watching one of the rollers go round and round in the lathe this morning I was thinking to myself about these nice smooth surfaces I am trying to get on the rollers. I was thinking what kinds of stuff might ruin the nice surface and I started thinking of the slag from the plasma cutter on parts I will be rolling. Then it struck me, is a "pinch" roller the best for rolling stuff like plasma cut fire rings with slag and stuff on the cutouts? Maybe a pyramid type roller would be better suited for what I want to do?What are the benefits of a pinch roller over a pyramid roller?12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:Hello VPT, in the "for what it's worth department" here are some thoughts/considerations for one versus the other. a pinch roller, in most instances is a 3-roll, all-rolls driven machine, additionally, it has adjustments for movement on 2 of the 3 rolls (I am not including 4 or more roll systems although they definitely exist and have a purpose). Pyramid rolls are of either a 2 of the 3 or 3 roll driven system and many are only adjustable for 1 of the 3 rolls, some for 2 of the 3 rolls. Pinch rolls can generally "roll" materials to radius on the part nearly all the way to the end, thus you generally don't have to worry about "bumping" the ends prior to rolling or providing other provisions for "prepping" the ends that will be coming together( don't have to allow for extra material that needs to be trimmed off after rolling the ends and before rolling the entire part to finished diameter/radius.Consider the finish of the rolls with this thought in mind: if they are "too" smooth they may have difficulty grabbing the material to pull it through the rolls. Often times one of the rollers will have a linear "groove" machined into it to grab onto the end and assist with getting the rolling started. Since this groove is generally pretty small it will have little affect on the roundness of the finished parts.There is plenty more that could be discussed about each of these designs and about rolling in general, Googling the process and doing some investigation will provide you with a wealth of information that can better explain all of the details than I can. Good luck and best regards, AllanPS. the slag and stuff on parts should be removed prior to rolling as these things can affect the accuracy and concentricity of rolled items if you are needing to split hairs at allLast edited by aevald; 11-20-2015 at 02:58 PM.aevald
Reply:So on a webpage somewhere I saw a deal about a "double pinch" roller. The center roll stays stationary like a pyramid roller and the two lower rollers move up and in towards the center roll to bend the material. This is very interesting to me! It seems to me it could then be used as a pinch roller or pyramid roller or both depending on the material being rolled, sound right?To be used as a pinch just crank one roller up tight to the center roller, then bring the 3rd roller up to form the material.For a pyramid just crank both lower rollers up equally.12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:I'd say that your understanding is pretty close. Budget pyramid rolls likely have the bottom rolls fixed and bring the top roll down and closer to the bottom 2. All in all though, I'd say that you have a good understanding. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:I have been thinking and pondering and drew up some ideas. Just a crude idea but you guys should get the idea. I thought up of a possible way to make the roller both a pinch roll or pyramid. Take a looky and tell me what you think:In pyramid mode:In slip roll mode:12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:I think it would work, but driving it and adjusting both ways would be tricky. I think the pyramid style is better for cone shapes and " unrolling" a piece. The skip roll version should be better for typical rolling, since you can put more pressure on the driven rolls.
Reply:If I go with any style other than just the slip roll I believe I will have to use a chain and sprocket setup. I have been thinking I will use an idler sprocket to take up the slack in the chain. Luckily fleet farm has a whole selection of chains and sprockets to pick over and check out. Even if I don't buy from there I can check them out and see sizes and whatnot in person.12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:Yeah, I know what you mean about being able to actually see the sprockets. Big Iron has a better selection if Fleet Farm doesn't have a certain size.
Reply:I finished the bushings and face of the last roller today. Yup the atlas hates me right now but she performed very well. Now I can take measurements and start work on the end plates, should only take a few months to pump those out. She deserves a bit a disassembly and cleaning.Three bushed and cleaned rollers.The main top roller has the bigger bush and the other two have smaller bushes to help increase the meat between the rollers on the end plates.Stay tuned for next months update!12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:What kind of bench is your Atlas sitting on? Factory offered?Looking into re-doing the bench for mine - looking for something more rigid than the hospital gurney its sitting on now.By the looks of the finish you are getting, yours must be fairly solid.What tool post are you using - AXA?I can pm you if you don't want this thread hijacked.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldypantsWhat kind of bench is your Atlas sitting on? Factory offered?Looking into re-doing the bench for mine - looking for something more rigid than the hospital gurney its sitting on now.By the looks of the finish you are getting, yours must be fairly solid.What tool post are you using - AXA?I can pm you if you don't want this thread hijacked.
Reply:OK - I don't think I will be building my own tool post anytime soon....Don't have the tools or the know how. I am looking into the imported AXA sized tool post for my 10x42 Atlas. I have a cheap work bench with a 2" pine butcher block type top on it that I think the lathe is destined for. Do you think rubber between the lathe and bench helps?I was thinking I could make plates for the underside as a giant washer to really tighten it up?
Reply:Those thick wood top benches work well and yes it is what the factory used. I really just payed down the rubber mat as a test and really can't tell if it has done anything. I would just mount the lathe strait to the wood or maybe a metal shim between the lathe feet and the wood bench just so the protrusions on the lathe feet don't work into the wood.Good size washers under the top can't hurt. I know many try to load up the bench then with as much weight as possible (tools, attachments, stock, and the like). I have my attachments in the drawers and stock on the bottom shelves.12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:I'll give er a go on the Christmas holidays.Thanks for your insight
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ooking good
Reply:Fill rollers with steel reinforced concrete.....build rebar "cage" that will slide into roller full inside length...You can use 2"pipe as a form to build the cages around, then just slide them off and into rollers...Use 1/4" rebar and bare steel wire to make cages....use plenty of rebar.Then use small aggregate and extra Portland cement to make concrete...vibrate the rollers as you pour them.
