Looking at pivot-head bandsaws - anybody used them?
Tue, 31 Aug 2021 09:28:31 GMT
'm looking to upgrade my ability to cut steel. Currently I'm using grinders with cut-off wheels, a Fein 9" metal cutting circular saw - and a Dewalt cold saw.The grinders and Dewalt saw I typically use outside the shop if I can because of the mess they leave behind. What I really want to do - is be able to cut a LOT more accurately than what I can with the equipment I have.So I looked into bandsaws - and what I want is to get a piece of equipment that will last for a while, cut accurately, and cut some larger stock. My shop is also crowded - so the pivot head bandsaws seem like the best option.There seems to be a lot of options out there - but not a huge amount of reviews or information about all the options.I've looked at the following:Jet J-9180Jet J-9225Dake Zip 22Hem Saw 2200XLHem Saw N215XLHyd-Mech DM6 (used - no longer in production)Ellis 1200 thru 2000 seriesBaileigh BS-210Baileigh BS-250Grizzly G0614Bolton Tools BS-315GKama EV-97and a number of other ones.I know everybody seems to like the Ellis saws - they seem to get the best reviews. For some reason they don't really appeal to me - I've read some bad reviews of the vise setup on those also.The Baileigh BS-250M and the Jet J-9225 are the models I keep going back to - and the Grizzly G0614 seems really appealing because it's at a really good price point. I bought a Grizzly metal brake last year - which after some extensive comparison shopping I figured was pretty much the same brake as that sold by like 5 other companies (including Jet and Baileigh) - but Grizzly was a much better price.So I'm wondering if the same trend would hold true with the Grizzly bandsaw.What I'm really after though is accuracy - I've got a couple of jobs where I really need the parts to be cut square and to be dimensionally consistent.I'm willing to pay more for a better say - but I'd rather pay less if what I'm really looking at here is the same saws with just different paint jobs on them.I have heard good things about pretty much all the Italian made stuff like the Kama, Hem and the HydMech stuff. Are the Taiwan made saws like the Jet, Baileigh, and Grizzly of the same cut quality?Any advice is appreciated!!
Reply:The Ellis are simple and made of various tubes. Not a bunch of poor quality iron castings. The Hyd Mech is commercial quality. I am not familiar with that particular model. My former employer had an 18" X 24" or 20" X 24" fully auto feed Hyd Mech. A real beast. It was fixed, no angle cuts, though. Even had a chip conveyor.Lincoln Power MIG 180. Winco 6000 watt generator (13hp Honda)
Reply:We have had very good luck with wellsaw. They cut square as long as the blade isn't dull.
Reply:Ellis. The gripes about the vise and cutting dry are way overblown. Use the vise correctly and you will never have a problem. If that doesn't do it for you, Ellis also has a screw vise you can get instead.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Originally Posted by 86k10We have had very good luck with wellsaw. They cut square as long as the blade isn't dull.
Reply:Originally Posted by deafmanThe Ellis are simple and made of various tubes. Not a bunch of poor quality iron castings. The Hyd Mech is commercial quality. I am not familiar with that particular model. My former employer had an 18" X 24" or 20" X 24" fully auto feed Hyd Mech. A real beast. It was fixed, no angle cuts, though. Even had a chip conveyor.
Reply:If I ever get another bandsaw( doubtful---I'm not a machine shop) it would certainly be the Ellis. The others you listed are mostly one in the same with different colors and knobs and accessories. Baleigh is a crap outfit(bad experience) Jet is so/so. Grizzly is a good outfit with easy access to tech and parts if needed. If you get an Asian one I'd make sure to buy through a bigger and reputable outfit for help, when needed. Trick-tools or somebody like that, or Grizzly.
Reply:Originally Posted by BonzooIf I ever get another bandsaw( doubtful---I'm not a machine shop) it would certainly be the Ellis. The others you listed are mostly one in the same with different colors and knobs and accessories. Baleigh is a crap outfit(bad experience) Jet is so/so. Grizzly is a good outfit with easy access to tech and parts if needed. If you get an Asian one I'd make sure to buy through a bigger and reputable outfit for help, when needed. Trick-tools or somebody like that, or Grizzly.
Reply:I just got a hydmech DM6 on craigslist last week for $1000. It's well used, but it's also fully serviceable and true industrial class construction. With a 2 speed 2.5 HP motor, I'll never be able to complain about power. What impresses me is it's massiveness structure wise. It has a small footprint since it's a 6.25" class saw, but it weighs almost 700#. It's stout, adjustable, and serviceable. Those are the things you want, something that is rigid for repeatable cutting under different stress loads, adjustable for any wear or manufacturing flaw, and you want to be able to buy parts down the line, otherwise it's just a disposable tool.I've been seriously shopping for a year for a higher quality saw, but I just couldn't pull the trigger on new. I decided used commercial quality was my best investment so I'd get a good saw that I could maintain. I don't do production work, so I'm sure my saw will outlive me so long as I do my part to keep it serviced. I've been looking for an Ellis in my short list, but they either get snatched up before i can get them, or they are overpriced, like 80% of new despite living an obvious hard life.Keep an open mind on 3 phase, you can adapt it to single phase with a $150 VFD, and that then allows some variable speed adjustment too.Everlast 350 EXT - Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52 - Rogue Fabrication M600 xHD tube benderMilwaukee 4208 Mag Drill - Shopmaster Eldorado Combo mill/lathe machine with DRO.
Reply:Originally Posted by Chad86tsiI just got a hydmech DM6 on craigslist last week for $1000. It's well used, but it's also fully serviceable and true industrial class construction. With a 2 speed 2.5 HP motor, I'll never be able to complain about power. What impresses me is it's massiveness structure wise. It has a small footprint since it's a 6.25" class saw, but it weighs almost 700#. It's stout, adjustable, and serviceable. Those are the things you want, something that is rigid for repeatable cutting under different stress loads, adjustable for any wear or manufacturing flaw, and you want to be able to buy parts down the line, otherwise it's just a disposable tool.I've been seriously shopping for a year for a higher quality saw, but I just couldn't pull the trigger on new. I decided used commercial quality was my best investment so I'd get a good saw that I could maintain. I don't do production work, so I'm sure my saw will outlive me so long as I do my part to keep it serviced. I've been looking for an Ellis in my short list, but they either get snatched up before i can get them, or they are overpriced, like 80% of new despite living an obvious hard life.Keep an open mind on 3 phase, you can adapt it to single phase with a $150 VFD, and that then allows some variable speed adjustment too.
Reply:Nothing hokey about Ellis. They are designed to be simple and serviceable. All the Ellis stuff seems to be designed from a fabricator's point of view. Not some engineer or bean counter that has never got thier hands dirty.My name's not Jim....
Reply:calsdadAdd this to your list of Italian saws . . . http://www.techsouthinc.com/pipesaws/bandsaw_ev996.htmlOpus
Reply:Just my 2 cents, the Ellis saws are awesome. But I currently have a Jet J 7015 8"x 13" that does every thing I ask for and can do very square cuts. I run 10-14T Lenox blades and use the Lenox coolant. I had an older Jet saw that used 3/4"x 93' blades that did a fair job, But a 1" blade is the best.
Reply:Originally Posted by calsdadI've had good luck with Grizzly on a number of machines in the past. As you pointed out: a lot of the stuff out there is the same with just different colors and knob configurations. I ran into this when I was looking for a box&pan brake last year. There wasn't any good used stuff around - and the new American made stuff was just out of my price range and probably overkill for the amount of times I would be using it. So I looked at the Jet/Baileigh/Grizzly offerings. What I found was that in the 4ft box&pan 12ga brake offerings - there was something like 8-10 companies all with what amounted to the exact same brake , just in different paint colors and with (maybe) some different configs on the fingers. Grizzly had the best price overall - and seems to always get good reviews on service. So I went with them and I'm happy with the brake so far.
Reply:Originally Posted by OPUS FERROcalsdadAdd this to your list of Italian saws . . . http://www.techsouthinc.com/pipesaws/bandsaw_ev996.htmlOpus
Reply:Originally Posted by BonzooSame here with the brake deal and I would have gone Griz myself but the only 2 dealers here are Shop Fox and Jet.No Grizzly. I went Jet.Back to bandsaws. A wide(tall) blade is easier to get right than a short. 3/4 min Any of the Chinesiums will cut as good as a dry saw when dialed . Blade first-- buy the best--cost be damned and one blade does NOT do it all. Change for the job if you want dead nuts, the vise is second (be smarter than your vise).....and saw itself, last. If the drop goes clang on the floor you need a cutting station with ANY metal cutting saw.Abrasives even more so. I have cut tube and angle perfect with my Makita abrasive in my rack but who in their right mind would want to ? 1/4 x 4 angle absolutely perfect.The OP lives near Santa and I could see having something less obnoxious than my dry saws indoors in the winter time.They aren't THAT dirty but they are deafening. So I hear. I'm already deaf. Well I hear ringing perfectly !
Reply:Blade tension on the hyd-mech is 700 KG minimum. It has an electronic load sensor that ensures that it's always at least that much or the saw won't run. With ~1500 pounds tension, a 3/4" blade will run pretty straight.Everlast 350 EXT - Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52 - Rogue Fabrication M600 xHD tube benderMilwaukee 4208 Mag Drill - Shopmaster Eldorado Combo mill/lathe machine with DRO.
Reply:I have two Ellis saw and love both of them. The only bad thing I can say is the cam style vice is not for me. I bought one used and it had the cam style and at the time I sawed several pieces of material together and the vice wouldn’t tighten up so I bought a screw vice. My freind has a machine shop and had his saw for several years and the plate on the bottom were the saw blade hits when you change angle was cut up badly over the years. Called Ellis to buy a new plate and the salesman was almost finished with the order and asked did you flip it? He said not and they canceled the order and said give us a call back when you wear the other side out. That impressed me that they could have sold parts and didn’t.
Reply:Got an Ellis not too long ago. I love the precision cuts it's capable of.Be very careful to go over everything twice, tighten down all the bolts, etc. Things loosen up during shipping, and you might be surprised at what needs double-checked.Dry cutting is wonderful and I wouldn't want to go back to wet cutting!Burned through $300 in blades so far because something's a hair out of whack and I can't seem to nail down what it is. Once you pop a single tooth, the blade is shot. You can continue to use it, but the teeth will continue to break off as you go. Blades are one of those things I really don't like. Even the best of them say you need to wear them in, basically hardening the teeth, by cutting very slowly through some thick steel. That means I'm doing what they should have done at the factory. Ever had to wear in a hacksaw blade when you pick up a new pack of them? Ever need to wear in a blade for your circular saw? I'm sure there's some science behind it, but I just hate the idea and wonder if the problems I've been having are because I'm not doing something exactly right.These things cut slowly. It's really aggravating when you need to make a bunch of cuts, but slow speeds preserve your blade -- they say. I dream of the day I can find a supplier that'll fill a five-gallon bucket with the 6" lengths I need!!
Reply:Originally Posted by VaughnTGot an Ellis not too long ago. I love the precision cuts it's capable of.Be very careful to go over everything twice, tighten down all the bolts, etc. Things loosen up during shipping, and you might be surprised at what needs double-checked.Dry cutting is wonderful and I wouldn't want to go back to wet cutting!Burned through $300 in blades so far because something's a hair out of whack and I can't seem to nail down what it is. Once you pop a single tooth, the blade is shot. You can continue to use it, but the teeth will continue to break off as you go. Blades are one of those things I really don't like. Even the best of them say you need to wear them in, basically hardening the teeth, by cutting very slowly through some thick steel. That means I'm doing what they should have done at the factory. Ever had to wear in a hacksaw blade when you pick up a new pack of them? Ever need to wear in a blade for your circular saw? I'm sure there's some science behind it, but I just hate the idea and wonder if the problems I've been having are because I'm not doing something exactly right.These things cut slowly. It's really aggravating when you need to make a bunch of cuts, but slow speeds preserve your blade -- they say. I dream of the day I can find a supplier that'll fill a five-gallon bucket with the 6" lengths I need!!
Reply:I'd expect a blade to last a lot longer with lubrication than dry. But I guess it all depends on the materials being cut.There is a proper break in procedure as well. Its crazy but it does work. Just time consuming.calsdad,Have you had any luck deciding on which saw to get?I'm looking for one as well but a bit smaller and half the budget. The one in particular is Grizzly G9742. I had just ordered a Baileigh 128m but like the Grizzly, its on back order. I like the swivel head option.
Reply:Originally Posted by sqznbyI'd expect a blade to last a lot longer with lubrication than dry. But I guess it all depends on the materials being cut.There is a proper break in procedure as well. Its crazy but it does work. Just time consuming.calsdad,Have you had any luck deciding on which saw to get?I'm looking for one as well but a bit smaller and half the budget. The one in particular is Grizzly G9742. I had just ordered a Baileigh 128m but like the Grizzly, its on back order. I like the swivel head option.
Reply:Originally Posted by calsdadWhat I'd really like to find is a used Hyd Mech DM-6 at a good price. I've seen a couple of people posting that they'd picked up DM-6's at decent prices (like $1000) in my travels thru a few different forums , and I found one listed for sale about 4 hours from me - but I haven't gotten any response from the guy after messaging him a few times. So it's probably gone.I was going back and forth between the Jet J-9225 and the Baleigh BS-250M, and I was prepared the spend the $$ to get one (they're both in the $3500 range) , but my cash flow lately hasn't been what I had hoped it would be. Right now - I think the lead contender is the Grizzly G0614. There's some good reviews from people on the G0613: I've seen a few forum posts now and a review on the Grizzly site from a customer showing how he was able to get nice consistent thin slices using the G0613, so it sounds like the Grizzly might have the accuracy I was looking for. I've been happy with Grizzly in the past too - I've bought from them a few times.For what I have to do *right now* - I could probably get by with just a straight horizontal cut saw and save myself some money. Precision Matthews has a nice looking horizontal cut saw - and I already have a mill and a lathe from them , so I think they have decent quality. The thing is - I learned the hard way to really and try to "think ahead" when I buy machines. It's a big PITA to buy something , use it for a while - find out you need something else - and then have to sell the old machine. I don't have a ton of space to have stuff sitting around that I don't use - and selling stuff on Craigslist can take a while , not bring back the investment ( typical Craigslist customer: I know you have it for sale for $2500 - but will you take 50 bucks for it? ) - and in general just takes up more time.So I'd rather overbuy first time around and just be done with it.If I can't find a good deal on a DM-6 in the next few weeks, I'll probably end up getting the Grizzly. We'll see.
Reply:Originally Posted by sqznbyI've been trolling craigslist and cant find anything. Literally nothing has come up anywhere around me.I hear that, I'm stretching my funds to get something. I was limiting myself but like you will over buy. I cant agree more and will not deal with craigslist trolls. How big is the space you are dealing with?I believe I'll be going with the Grizzly G0613.
Reply:You got me beat, haha. Mine will be going in a 10x16 shed until my garage is built. Nice collections of tools as well. What model Diarco do you have?I hear yah, its funny how fast you can fill a barn. I feel your pain. Just moved out of a house with 2 car garage into a house with a 10x16 shed. Its easier to swivel the head than have to move the material around. Especially if you're cutting full sticks. I was thinking the same thing, that's why I'm going swivel head. I don't do anything spectacular, just exhaust and hot side work so I don't need tons of space.I believe the saws will have wheels, at least in the rear to aid in moving them around.I've got a Diacro #2 bender and a #4 bender.I've found that by putting stuff on wheels I can more easily take advantage of the space I have. I see an awful lot of people put stuff on wheels - and they use these dinky little casters that probably have a load rating of 100 pounds, and they just put them on a 1000 pound tool. I've got the Grizzly brake on 6" casters - and it rolls nice and easy across the floor, according to the Grizzly specs the thing weighs in around 1200 pounds. I made mounts for the big hydraulic press so I could put casters on that - it weighs around 1000 pounds - and it rolls nicely on 6" casters and it's nice and stable.The problem I still have to solve for the Diacros - is what I'm going to do with them. I've been building a cabinet to mount one of them on - with casters - and then I'm going to put a "V" at the bottom of the cabinet so that it can be inserted into a frame that will rest on the floor and go up against a wall. My problem with the Diacros - is that I want to keep them mobile , but they're really meant to be bolted down to the floor. I can't drill holes in the floor of my barn - because there's a radiant heat system in it , and I don't want to risk going thru one of the tubes by mistake.
Reply:Originally Posted by calsdadSo what is different about the Ellis that allows dry cutting - vs. the others that all seem to be wet-cut? Don't all the saws take the same types of blades? Is Ellis just cutting slower than the others to preserve the blades when you don't use lubrication?
Reply:I'd get the Ellis.
Reply:Another vote for Ellis, I picked up a 1600 last year along with their screw type vise. The cam lock works fine for sq tube, I use the screw type for round along with a v block. Everytime I have to cut a 45 it puts a smile on my face.. Sure beats having to mess around with finding the right angle on my vise. Sure, there are better band saws out there than the Ellis just dig quite a bit deeper.. PeteESAB SVI300ESAB MIG 4 HDMILLER PASSPORT 180MILLER DYNASTY 300DXMILLER COOLMATE 4MILLER 30AMILLER SPECTRUM 2050C&K WF-3PrimeWeld Tig 225X
Reply:My vote goes for the ELLIS. I bought the 1600 and the screw vise on sale. I adapted the camlock vise for my drill press .I bought Irwin blades before Enco was bought out. They had a super sale. Got five blades for around $100.00. Others here did the same.
Reply:I used and repaired an older version of the KAMA. I think it is a good saw but it has a couple of issues that should be considered. The plastic electrical control box is perfectly located for the operator to use to move the saw. When they do it usually rips the box off the saw. It is top heavy and can tip easily. The pivot mechanism is solid but attracts all the swarf from cutting with coolant and is prone to jamming up. (if you keep it greased it helps) Parts are not super expensive but are not readily available. It is not as far as I know, made in the US. Jim
Reply:Another Ellis devotee here. Bought a new 1600 a year or two ago and it was the best money I've spent in my shop yet. I build a lot of hand rails for steps and being able to change angles quickly is very important to me. I would like to get a screw-lock vise but the cam-lock hasn't really been a problem for me. I've cut up to 8" schedule 40 pipe and 1.5" round solid without issue, but mostly I cut square tubing and 1/2 square solid and it does quick work.GraysOrnamentalIron.com
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